Is The Zune Holding Back? What Apple (And Probably Microsoft) Don't Want You To Know

PityOnU · 05-28-2007, 03:30 PM

Many people (including myself and the rest of the H&M Team) have complained about the apparent lack of services offered by the Zune program. But, is this really Microsoft's fault? Are they really missing? I do not know if it is Microsoft's fault, but the services definitely aren't missing. In fact, there are a number of awesome apps already coded into the Zune software.

How do I know this? Well, being on H&M kind of makes it my job to know this. And after working with this program for some months now, I have found A LOT of things that Microsoft has locked away in there. Have a look:

Zune Codecs?

I myself have heavily noticed the lack of supported file types by the Zune software (so much that the H&M team made a mod to get around it <here>), but from the evidence I have found, it was not supposed to be this way. If made to do so, the Zune program will convert and sync to your Zune an amazingly large amount of file types. In the Zune program files, there is also the coding for this:

What is it? Well, its a dialogue box used for downloading and installing plug-ins and codecs for the Zune player. It looks a lot like (and is probably the same as) the dialogue box used to download codecs in WMP11. The Zune program would definitely benefit from being able to play and sync more types of media, so why is Microsoft holding back on this one?

Podcasts On Zune?

I found the lack of podcast support in the Zune program to be a very stupid move by Microsoft. Why, when trying to establish a customer base of iPod users, would you leave out this very popular iPod function? Well, guess what? They didn't:

This is another dialogue box found in the Zune program files, eluding to Podcast support. Why is it locked away if it is already coded into the Zune program? The answer for this one is pretty easy: it was probably a threatened lawsuit from Apple. That's probably the reason for the next thing, too.

.AAC Support?

It surprised me to find while working with the Zune that the Zune device itself has the ability to play .aac files! It's actually coded into the firmware! Take a look:

The above screenshot is of system information taken directly from the Zune device. After seeing this, I thought to myself, "Finally, Microsoft did something smart." Not really. After looking into the Zune program files, I was surprised to find that that the Zune program will not pick up and/or sync any .aac files to the device. Why would Microsoft make it so that ex-iPod owners would not be able to add any of the songs they purchased from iTunes onto their Zunes, especially when the Zune device itself would play the files? I have no clue. I would assume that it has something to do with Apple owning the .aac format, but I'm not sure. Either way, this is a HUGE screw up by Microsoft, and this should be fixed ASAP.

Microsoft Live Spaces Integration?

This is my favorite of all the hidden features. In the Zune software, there are MULTIPLE references to things such as 'Friends', 'IM', and 'Profiles'. Here is one of them:

Shown above is one of the menus coded into the Zune program but for some reason or another cannot yet be accessed. There are a large number of things like this, including more menus, dialogue boxes, and strings, that indicate Zune compatibility with IM programs and/or some sort of online blog. There is also evidence that would indicate that people you pick up on you Zune would be saved, picked up on your PC, and automatically added to your friends list. I would assume that it would use Microsoft Live Spaces and Microsoft Messenger, but I can find no solid evidence of either. The fact remains, Microsoft seems to be going big time for the 'social' aspect of the Zune, and since this is already coded into the software, you can expect it soon.

Song Play Counts?

There is already coding in the Zune firmware that counts how many times the user has played each song (possibly for the 3x3 rule), proven by the below screenie:

All Microsoft would have to do would be to add some coding to retrieve these numbers off of the device and they would be good to go. A lot of people use this feature, too, so I have no idea why they have not yet done it (after all, the Zune has been out for 6 months now).

Overall, the Microsoft's Zune project could be an AMAZINGLY successful one, but until Microsoft (or us hackers) take the initiative to unlock all of its hidden features, it will continue to be an underdog to Apple's iPod, which has already established a strong foothold on today's market.

H&M Crew
ZuneBoards.com

P.S. - If anyone has any .aac files they could post, the H&M team may be able to unlock the .aac part of the Zune program.

P.P.S. - By us finding these 'hidden features', it in no way signifies that we are able to 'unlock' them.

Samurai · 05-28-2007, 03:38 PM

WAY TO GO! Period.

ZuneScribe · 05-28-2007, 03:41 PM

That's a really cool article. I'm going to see if I'm able to post this as a news article, if that's ok? (with you credited)

PityOnU · 05-28-2007, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZuneScribe

That's a really cool article. I'm going to see if I'm able to post this as a news article, if that's ok? (with you credited)

Yes! Please! Been trying to get this out for ages! That would make my day!

+rep in advance

ZuneScribe · 05-28-2007, 04:03 PM

Thanks

Check the news now. Also dugg it

http://www.zuneboards.com/content/view/80/2/

Marshillboy · 05-28-2007, 04:08 PM

Everybody please take special care to note this line:

Quote:

P.P.S. - By us finding these 'hidden features', it in no way signifies that we are able to 'unlock' them.

~The H&M Team~

Thrax · 05-28-2007, 04:09 PM

wow I figured all of this would come with future firmwares but i never figured it would already be integrated in the zune sofware, thx for the enlightment

lol

Diego15nets · 05-28-2007, 04:12 PM

Great article! There are so many features that have been held back, the main question is why? because they're not ready, because of the lawsuits with apple...why?! We want to know!

Cursemaster0 · 05-28-2007, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marshillboy

Everybody please take special care to note this line:

~The H&M Team~

Yea i got pwned by that one....

wright013 · 05-28-2007, 05:23 PM

Can't you sync .aac files to the zune? I've never tried but I thought that you could...

Sync audio files to your Zune device
You can use the Zune software to sync audio files together with your Zune device that comply with the following standards:
• Windows Media Audio (.wma)
You can use a bit rate up to 320 Kbps. For constant bit rate (CBR) and variable bit rate (VBR) files, you can use a bit rate up to 48-kilohertz (kHz) sample rate.
• MP3 (.mp3)
You can use a bit rate up to 320 Kbps. For CBR and VBR files, you can use a bit rate up to 48-kHz sample rate.
• Advanced audio coding (AAC) files such as .mp4, .m4a, .m4b, and .mov files
You can use a bit rate up to 320 Kbps. For Low Complexity (LC) files, you can use a bit rate up to 48-kHz sample rate.

From: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/928191

Seems like even Microsoft thinks that you can. I know that there is no way to sync protected iTunes files, but I thought that you could sync ones ripped from cds.

Gow616 · 05-28-2007, 07:03 PM

You can sync AAC, exactly how you sync AAC on the iPod.

AAC is the codec, .AAC is just a file container.

AAC files encoded by iTunes result in files with the container format of .m4a (for audio), .m4v (for video), .m4p (Protected Audio).

The Zune cannot play the .m4p files due to the DRM restricting the playback. The .m4a files and .m4v (should have not tested this one) files plus the .mp4 files play fine in the Zune Player.

AAC files encoded into the .m4a container can be synced with the Zune.

I know this because (check my sig) I encoded all my audio files into Nero AAC @ q0.5. Results in ~175kpbs AAC file. There is nothing to unlock in regards to AAC except the video portion.

If you can unlock the video portion on the Zune device that would be nice but that requires messing with the firmware. Most hacked firmware get poor battery life compared to the stock firmware. Example, Rockbox.

In short, AAC audio works on the Zune Portable Player if that audio is in the .mp4 or .m4a container format. It will not recognize .AAC even if it is encoded by an AAC encoder.

It is also a common misconception that the .FORMAT is the format that it is encoded to. Until I was corrected I thought it was the same way. Like Ogg Vorbis, .ogg is just the cointainer, because supposedly it can be encoded to .flac as well.

MasterShake · 05-28-2007, 07:19 PM

wow thats some crazy stuff there.

well im rooting for microsoft or "someone else" to get some of these things going

yensed · 05-28-2007, 09:43 PM

Hmm, Sorry.. I created a topic about being able to play aac files on the zune and Zune software earlier today before I noticed This topic...http://www.zuneboards.com/forums/gen...html#post40025

jessy · 05-29-2007, 09:37 AM

P.P.S. - By us finding these 'hidden features', it in no way signifies that we are able to 'unlock' them.

i was saddened when i read that. these features might not be great or useable , but i like how they were hidden, as if it were a way to kind of let us know what they had in mind if we ever got to poking around the zune.

PityOnU · 05-29-2007, 03:02 PM

To clear up the confusion: I meant getting the software to pick up and sync actual .aac files, not any of that other stuff. I have never used an iPod or any Apple software in my entire life (that include QuickTime and iTunes) so I wouldn't know what file type iTunes songs come in. I just assumed they were .aac's because that is the Apple codec of choice.

Anyway, someone alrwady gave us some .aac files, so we'll see what we can do...

yensed · 05-29-2007, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PityOnU

To clear up the confusion: I meant getting the software to pick up and sync actual .aac files, not any of that other stuff. I have never used an iPod or any Apple software in my entire life (that include QuickTime and iTunes) so I wouldn't know what file type iTunes songs come in. I just assumed they were .aac's because that is the Apple codec of choice.

Anyway, someone alrwady gave us some .aac files, so we'll see what we can do...

The most popular Extensions/containers for AAC(Advanced Audio Coding) audio files are .m4a(Unprotected), .m4p(Protected), .mp4(Can be Video or Audio).. The extension/container ".aac" is an audio file, like an m4a, without the meta-data header. It's basically a naked m4a file. You can't add information into the file like Artist, Album, Track, Album art etc.". The extension .aac is extremely uncommon and rarely used for anything by anyone. Why anyone would want support for such a useless/unused format, I don't know. Sure, for something as simple as a digital voice recorder, its great. But not for music.

ACE · 05-29-2007, 04:31 PM

God....:shocked:

Now knowing this information just makes waiting even more tortuous...
Before it was like a firnware awaiting release, but to think of the possibilities ALREADY encoded........ARGH!....

Don't get me wrong, this is the most exciting news to date, but now to wait??....To know the possibilities are on my computer locked......

Zune would jump lightyears ahead of iPod with these features!

When? *starts sobbing*
Why? *Sobs louder*
WHHHHHHHYYYYY!!!!! *Uncontrolable weeping*

OK I'm done....

Trogdor · 05-29-2007, 06:06 PM

answer: yes because of lawsuits that would occur
translation for Dummies: Macintosh Corp. is made up of Hippie Sucubusses

05-28-2007, 03:30 PM	#1 (permalink)
PityOnU Super Zuner Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: In the real world Posts: 1,981 Reputation: 134 $zB: 157 Donate	Is The Zune Holding Back? What Apple (And Probably Microsoft) Don't Want You To Know Many people (including myself and the rest of the H&M Team) have complained about the apparent lack of services offered by the Zune program. But, is this really Microsoft's fault? Are they really missing? I do not know if it is Microsoft's fault, but the services definitely aren't missing. In fact, there are a number of awesome apps already coded into the Zune software. How do I know this? Well, being on H&M kind of makes it my job to know this. And after working with this program for some months now, I have found A LOT of things that Microsoft has locked away in there. Have a look: Zune Codecs? I myself have heavily noticed the lack of supported file types by the Zune software (so much that the H&M team made a mod to get around it <here>), but from the evidence I have found, it was not supposed to be this way. If made to do so, the Zune program will convert and sync to your Zune an amazingly large amount of file types. In the Zune program files, there is also the coding for this: What is it? Well, its a dialogue box used for downloading and installing plug-ins and codecs for the Zune player. It looks a lot like (and is probably the same as) the dialogue box used to download codecs in WMP11. The Zune program would definitely benefit from being able to play and sync more types of media, so why is Microsoft holding back on this one? Podcasts On Zune? I found the lack of podcast support in the Zune program to be a very stupid move by Microsoft. Why, when trying to establish a customer base of iPod users, would you leave out this very popular iPod function? Well, guess what? They didn't: This is another dialogue box found in the Zune program files, eluding to Podcast support. Why is it locked away if it is already coded into the Zune program? The answer for this one is pretty easy: it was probably a threatened lawsuit from Apple. That's probably the reason for the next thing, too. .AAC Support? It surprised me to find while working with the Zune that the Zune device itself has the ability to play .aac files! It's actually coded into the firmware! Take a look: The above screenshot is of system information taken directly from the Zune device. After seeing this, I thought to myself, "Finally, Microsoft did something smart." Not really. After looking into the Zune program files, I was surprised to find that that the Zune program will not pick up and/or sync any .aac files to the device. Why would Microsoft make it so that ex-iPod owners would not be able to add any of the songs they purchased from iTunes onto their Zunes, especially when the Zune device itself would play the files? I have no clue. I would assume that it has something to do with Apple owning the .aac format, but I'm not sure. Either way, this is a HUGE screw up by Microsoft, and this should be fixed ASAP. Microsoft Live Spaces Integration? This is my favorite of all the hidden features. In the Zune software, there are MULTIPLE references to things such as 'Friends', 'IM', and 'Profiles'. Here is one of them: Shown above is one of the menus coded into the Zune program but for some reason or another cannot yet be accessed. There are a large number of things like this, including more menus, dialogue boxes, and strings, that indicate Zune compatibility with IM programs and/or some sort of online blog. There is also evidence that would indicate that people you pick up on you Zune would be saved, picked up on your PC, and automatically added to your friends list. I would assume that it would use Microsoft Live Spaces and Microsoft Messenger, but I can find no solid evidence of either. The fact remains, Microsoft seems to be going big time for the 'social' aspect of the Zune, and since this is already coded into the software, you can expect it soon. Song Play Counts? There is already coding in the Zune firmware that counts how many times the user has played each song (possibly for the 3x3 rule), proven by the below screenie: All Microsoft would have to do would be to add some coding to retrieve these numbers off of the device and they would be good to go. A lot of people use this feature, too, so I have no idea why they have not yet done it (after all, the Zune has been out for 6 months now). Overall, the Microsoft's Zune project could be an AMAZINGLY successful one, but until Microsoft (or us hackers) take the initiative to unlock all of its hidden features, it will continue to be an underdog to Apple's iPod, which has already established a strong foothold on today's market. H&M Crew ZuneBoards.com P.S. - If anyone has any .aac files they could post, the H&M team may be able to unlock the .aac part of the Zune program. P.P.S. - By us finding these 'hidden features', it in no way signifies that we are able to 'unlock' them.

05-28-2007, 03:38 PM	#2 (permalink)
Samurai Retired Staff Jr. Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 393 Reputation: 31 $zB: 0 Donate	WAY TO GO! Period. __________________ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

05-28-2007, 04:03 PM	#5 (permalink)
ZuneScribe Squirt Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Great Britain Posts: 15 Reputation: 12 $zB: 0 Donate	Thanks Check the news now. Also dugg it http://www.zuneboards.com/content/view/80/2/ Last edited by ZuneScribe : 05-28-2007 at 04:13 PM.

05-28-2007, 04:09 PM	#7 (permalink)
Thrax Jr. Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Bay Area,CA Posts: 268 Reputation: 12 $zB: 3 Donate	wow I figured all of this would come with future firmwares but i never figured it would already be integrated in the zune sofware, thx for the enlightment lol __________________ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. John 3:16-Jehovah A single death is a tragedy, a million deaths is a statistic.-Joseph Stalin

05-28-2007, 05:23 PM	#10 (permalink)
wright013 Experienced Zuner Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 155 Reputation: 16 $zB: 0 Donate	Can't you sync .aac files to the zune? I've never tried but I thought that you could... Sync audio files to your Zune device You can use the Zune software to sync audio files together with your Zune device that comply with the following standards: • Windows Media Audio (.wma) You can use a bit rate up to 320 Kbps. For constant bit rate (CBR) and variable bit rate (VBR) files, you can use a bit rate up to 48-kilohertz (kHz) sample rate. • MP3 (.mp3) You can use a bit rate up to 320 Kbps. For CBR and VBR files, you can use a bit rate up to 48-kHz sample rate. • Advanced audio coding (AAC) files such as .mp4, .m4a, .m4b, and .mov files You can use a bit rate up to 320 Kbps. For Low Complexity (LC) files, you can use a bit rate up to 48-kHz sample rate. From: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/928191 Seems like even Microsoft thinks that you can. I know that there is no way to sync protected iTunes files, but I thought that you could sync ones ripped from cds. __________________ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

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05-28-2007, 03:41 PM	#3 (permalink)
ZuneScribe Squirt Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Great Britain Posts: 15 Reputation: 12 $zB: 0 Donate	That's a really cool article. I'm going to see if I'm able to post this as a news article, if that's ok? (with you credited)

05-28-2007, 04:12 PM	#8 (permalink)
Diego15nets Jr. Zuner Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 35 Reputation: 10 $zB: 1 Donate	Great article! There are so many features that have been held back, the main question is why? because they're not ready, because of the lawsuits with apple...why?! We want to know!

05-28-2007, 07:03 PM	#11 (permalink)
Gow616 J.R. "Bob" Dobbs Coyote Support Team Premium Member Section Staff Super Zuner Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Fort Wayne, IN, USA Posts: 1,623 Reputation: 220 $zB: 856 Donate	You can sync AAC, exactly how you sync AAC on the iPod. AAC is the codec, .AAC is just a file container. AAC files encoded by iTunes result in files with the container format of .m4a (for audio), .m4v (for video), .m4p (Protected Audio). The Zune cannot play the .m4p files due to the DRM restricting the playback. The .m4a files and .m4v (should have not tested this one) files plus the .mp4 files play fine in the Zune Player. AAC files encoded into the .m4a container can be synced with the Zune. I know this because (check my sig) I encoded all my audio files into Nero AAC @ q0.5. Results in ~175kpbs AAC file. There is nothing to unlock in regards to AAC except the video portion. If you can unlock the video portion on the Zune device that would be nice but that requires messing with the firmware. Most hacked firmware get poor battery life compared to the stock firmware. Example, Rockbox. In short, AAC audio works on the Zune Portable Player if that audio is in the .mp4 or .m4a container format. It will not recognize .AAC even if it is encoded by an AAC encoder. It is also a common misconception that the .FORMAT is the format that it is encoded to. Until I was corrected I thought it was the same way. Like Ogg Vorbis, .ogg is just the cointainer, because supposedly it can be encoded to .flac as well. __________________ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Thanks to Mr. Munke, Stkr and Volpe for my sigs. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Gow® now ships with Trogdor created profile picture. Gow's Weekly Top Albums Want to know what Gow is listening to? Click on images below. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Last edited by Gow616 : 05-28-2007 at 07:12 PM.

05-28-2007, 07:19 PM	#12 (permalink)
MasterShake Zuner Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: SoCal Posts: 74 Reputation: 10 $zB: 0 Donate	wow thats some crazy stuff there. well im rooting for microsoft or "someone else" to get some of these things going

05-28-2007, 09:43 PM	#13 (permalink)
yensed Anti-Fanboy Retired Staff Experienced Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Coos Bay, Oregon. Posts: 978 Reputation: 19 $zB: 116 Donate	Hmm, Sorry.. I created a topic about being able to play aac files on the zune and Zune software earlier today before I noticed This topic...http://www.zuneboards.com/forums/gen...html#post40025

05-29-2007, 09:37 AM	#14 (permalink)
jessy Experienced Zuner Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 178 Reputation: 10 $zB: 16 Donate	P.P.S. - By us finding these 'hidden features', it in no way signifies that we are able to 'unlock' them. i was saddened when i read that. these features might not be great or useable , but i like how they were hidden, as if it were a way to kind of let us know what they had in mind if we ever got to poking around the zune.

05-29-2007, 03:02 PM	#15 (permalink)
PityOnU Super Zuner Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: In the real world Posts: 1,981 Reputation: 134 $zB: 157 Donate	To clear up the confusion: I meant getting the software to pick up and sync actual .aac files, not any of that other stuff. I have never used an iPod or any Apple software in my entire life (that include QuickTime and iTunes) so I wouldn't know what file type iTunes songs come in. I just assumed they were .aac's because that is the Apple codec of choice. Anyway, someone alrwady gave us some .aac files, so we'll see what we can do...

05-29-2007, 04:31 PM	#17 (permalink)
ACE iPoods suck! zB Writer Section Staff Super Zuner Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Fresno, CA USA Posts: 1,843 Reputation: 140 $zB: 133 Donate	God....:shocked: Now knowing this information just makes waiting even more tortuous... Before it was like a firnware awaiting release, but to think of the possibilities ALREADY encoded........ARGH!.... Don't get me wrong, this is the most exciting news to date, but now to wait??....To know the possibilities are on my computer locked...... Zune would jump lightyears ahead of iPod with these features! When? starts sobbing Why? Sobs louder WHHHHHHHYYYYY!!!!! Uncontrolable weeping OK I'm done.... __________________ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. I'm an To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. ...Do you know what the original ZuneMarketplace looked like?

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