Go Back   Zune Boards > News and Website Related > Front Page Articles > Archive

Archive Archived Front Page Articles.

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old 07-10-2011, 05:49 PM   #1
Locke
Is the order a rabbit?
Senior Editor
Super Moderator
Demi Zuner
 
Locke's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 9,840
Locke is a splendid one to beholdLocke is a splendid one to beholdLocke is a splendid one to beholdLocke is a splendid one to beholdLocke is a splendid one to beholdLocke is a splendid one to behold
Default Microsoft Surprisingly Open

If you've owned a Zune you know that Microsoft likes to keep things to themselves. They are one of the largest and most successful closed source software vendors, after all. Firmware on the Zune is one thing MS does not like people playing around with or using in any way they don't intend. WP7, on the other hand, seems to be a different playing field.

The folks over at XDA decided to give the Mango beta that's been floating around on the HTC HD2, originally designed to run Windows Phone 6.5. Though hardly intended for the device, it runs surprisingly well. Most surprising, however, was MS putting their stamp of approval on such efforts. They encouraged people to do what they wanted with their coming update, an openness we've not seen with the Zune before, and it should help WP7 to remain a competitive fixture in the smartphone market.

[Source: Gizmodo]
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



Locke is offline  

Advertisement [Remove Advertisement]

Old 07-11-2011, 08:24 AM   #2
dooglehead
><(((º>
Support Team
Graduate Zuner
 
dooglehead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 1,362
dooglehead is just really nicedooglehead is just really nicedooglehead is just really nice
Send a message via MSN to dooglehead Send a message via Skype™ to dooglehead
Default

Wow. That sounds more like something Google would do than Microsoft.




dooglehead is offline  

Old 07-11-2011, 09:07 AM   #3
blegs38552
Jr. Zuner
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 35
blegs38552 is on a distinguished road
Default

Does this mean that a Windows 6.5 phone can actually run Windows 7 phone?



blegs38552 is offline  

Old 07-11-2011, 09:14 AM   #4
NightFire
Jr. Member
 
NightFire's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Little Elm, Texas, United States
Posts: 424
NightFire is on a distinguished road
Send a message via Yahoo to NightFire
Default

Hmm, need to see if you can use the marketplace.
Hear that's the main problem with doing this currently.





NightFire is offline  

Old 07-11-2011, 09:19 AM   #5
Dilpickle1
1elkciplid
Retired Staff
Super Zuner²
 
Dilpickle1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Ohio
Posts: 3,837
Dilpickle1 is a splendid one to beholdDilpickle1 is a splendid one to beholdDilpickle1 is a splendid one to beholdDilpickle1 is a splendid one to beholdDilpickle1 is a splendid one to beholdDilpickle1 is a splendid one to behold
Send a message via AIM to Dilpickle1 Send a message via MSN to Dilpickle1 Send a message via Skype™ to Dilpickle1
Default

The HD2 runs windows mobile 6.5, Android 2.3.4, Windows Phone 7 (Every version ever) and I believe mango does have the marketplace. Oh, and it can dual boot.



Dilpickle1 is offline  

Old 07-11-2011, 11:55 AM   #6
SteppingSplash
Half Bad
Expert Zuner
 
SteppingSplash's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Well wouldn't you like to know?
Posts: 3,453
SteppingSplash has a spectacular aura aboutSteppingSplash has a spectacular aura about
Default

It's nice to see WP7 not completely getting tossed around in the smartphone market.
Although the only thing that would make me buy one over Android would be Zune, Netflix, and maybe better games (haven't tried them at all).




SteppingSplash is offline  

Old 07-11-2011, 12:56 PM   #7
Dilpickle1
1elkciplid
Retired Staff
Super Zuner²
 
Dilpickle1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Ohio
Posts: 3,837
Dilpickle1 is a splendid one to beholdDilpickle1 is a splendid one to beholdDilpickle1 is a splendid one to beholdDilpickle1 is a splendid one to beholdDilpickle1 is a splendid one to beholdDilpickle1 is a splendid one to behold
Send a message via AIM to Dilpickle1 Send a message via MSN to Dilpickle1 Send a message via Skype™ to Dilpickle1
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteppingSplash View Post
It's nice to see WP7 not completely getting tossed around in the smartphone market.
Although the only thing that would make me buy one over Android would be Zune, Netflix, and maybe better games (haven't tried them at all).
Netflix is on quite a few android devices if you know what you're doing.. most require gingerbread.



Dilpickle1 is offline  

Old 07-11-2011, 01:47 PM   #8
Locke
Is the order a rabbit?
Senior Editor
Super Moderator
Demi Zuner
 
Locke's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 9,840
Locke is a splendid one to beholdLocke is a splendid one to beholdLocke is a splendid one to beholdLocke is a splendid one to beholdLocke is a splendid one to beholdLocke is a splendid one to behold
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dooglehead View Post
Wow. That sounds more like something Google would do than Microsoft.
I do believe one of the recent Android releases was actually closed source for the time being because they didn't want people running it on devices it wasn't designed for.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



Locke is offline  

Old 07-11-2011, 02:04 PM   #9
SteppingSplash
Half Bad
Expert Zuner
 
SteppingSplash's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Well wouldn't you like to know?
Posts: 3,453
SteppingSplash has a spectacular aura aboutSteppingSplash has a spectacular aura about
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dilpickle1 View Post
Netflix is on quite a few android devices if you know what you're doing.. most require gingerbread.
Right, like 5 or so devices, I believe.
Which are all higher-end devices. My point was more along the lines the fact that no matter what WP7 you get, you can have Netflix. But you will have to search for a Netflix-ready Android device if that's what you're looking for.
If I'm not mistaken, there aren't any Android tablets that support Netflix...

Anyways, I like where Microsoft is going with this.




SteppingSplash is offline  

Old 07-11-2011, 03:52 PM   #10
Netrix
Purger of Ignorance
Development Front
Retired Staff
Super Zuner²
 
Netrix's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: In my own world
Posts: 4,268
Netrix has much to be proud ofNetrix has much to be proud ofNetrix has much to be proud ofNetrix has much to be proud ofNetrix has much to be proud ofNetrix has much to be proud ofNetrix has much to be proud of
Send a message via MSN to Netrix
Default

You call that open...? Why would they care if people manage to get Windows Phone 7 to run on older devices?

Open would be allowing us to run native code on Windows Phone 7. The COM bridge exploit has been nearly completely broken by Mango so far. Only signed native COM DLLs can be used now. That means no native homebrew... unless someone finds a way around it.




Netrix is offline  

Old 07-11-2011, 04:25 PM   #11
Locke
Is the order a rabbit?
Senior Editor
Super Moderator
Demi Zuner
 
Locke's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 9,840
Locke is a splendid one to beholdLocke is a splendid one to beholdLocke is a splendid one to beholdLocke is a splendid one to beholdLocke is a splendid one to beholdLocke is a splendid one to behold
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Netrix View Post
You call that open...? Why would they care if people manage to get Windows Phone 7 to run on older devices?

Open would be allowing us to run native code on Windows Phone 7. The COM bridge exploit has been nearly completely broken by Mango so far. Only signed native COM DLLs can be used now. That means no native homebrew... unless someone finds a way around it.
More open than is expected from MS and than they have been in the past, hence "surprisingly," so...yes.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



Locke is offline  

Old 07-11-2011, 05:53 PM   #12
Cubby1996
Experienced Zuner
 
Cubby1996's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 198
Cubby1996 has disabled reputation
Send a message via Skype™ to Cubby1996
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteppingSplash View Post
Right, like 5 or so devices, I believe.
Which are all higher-end devices. My point was more along the lines the fact that no matter what WP7 you get, you can have Netflix. But you will have to search for a Netflix-ready Android device if that's what you're looking for.
If I'm not mistaken, there aren't any Android tablets that support Netflix...

Anyways, I like where Microsoft is going with this.
Ugh, Android tablets... they're just giant phones. I have a real tablet. it can run flash and HTML5, which means I can tons of free games, such as Angry Birds using the Chrome app.








Cubby1996 is offline  

Old 07-11-2011, 08:23 PM   #13
Netrix
Purger of Ignorance
Development Front
Retired Staff
Super Zuner²
 
Netrix's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: In my own world
Posts: 4,268
Netrix has much to be proud ofNetrix has much to be proud ofNetrix has much to be proud ofNetrix has much to be proud ofNetrix has much to be proud ofNetrix has much to be proud ofNetrix has much to be proud of
Send a message via MSN to Netrix
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Locke View Post
More open than is expected from MS and than they have been in the past, hence "surprisingly," so...yes.
Except that Windows Mobile was extremely open, especially compared to Windows Phone 7. It seems like you are confusing the pre-OpenZDK Zunes with Windows Phones.

They have had over a year to fix the exploit that allows OpenZDK to run native apps on the Zunes, yet they have not done it, even though they just released a security firmware update. Windows Phones at most can run limited native code in a COM DLL (so no native homebrew executables). So why is it so surprising that Microsoft would show a small bit of openess related to Windows Phone?

The point is that they are a lot more open with the Zunes than they will probably ever be with Windows Phones.

Last edited by Netrix; 07-11-2011 at 08:31 PM.




Netrix is offline  

Old 07-11-2011, 08:35 PM   #14
Locke
Is the order a rabbit?
Senior Editor
Super Moderator
Demi Zuner
 
Locke's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 9,840
Locke is a splendid one to beholdLocke is a splendid one to beholdLocke is a splendid one to beholdLocke is a splendid one to beholdLocke is a splendid one to beholdLocke is a splendid one to behold
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Netrix View Post
Except that Windows Mobile was extremely open, especially compared to Windows Phone 7. It seems like you are confusing the pre-OpenZDK Zunes with Windows Phones.

They have had over a year to fix the exploit that allows OpenZDK to run native apps on the Zunes, yet they have not done it, even though they just released a security firmware update. Windows Phones at most can run limited native code in a COM DLL (so no native homebrew executables). So why is it so surprising that Microsoft would show a small bit of openess related to Windows Phone?

The point is that they are a lot more open with the Zunes than they will probably ever be with Windows Phones.
I'm not confusing, I'm comparing. Microsoft hasn't said "have a ball with the Zune firmware on whatever you can run it on," but they have with Mango. They don't encourage "tinkering" as Bill Cox called it on the Zune, but he said "tinker away with Mango and enjoy the juice" regarding Mango. That's the point.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



Locke is offline  

Old 07-11-2011, 08:48 PM   #15
Dilpickle1
1elkciplid
Retired Staff
Super Zuner²
 
Dilpickle1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Ohio
Posts: 3,837
Dilpickle1 is a splendid one to beholdDilpickle1 is a splendid one to beholdDilpickle1 is a splendid one to beholdDilpickle1 is a splendid one to beholdDilpickle1 is a splendid one to beholdDilpickle1 is a splendid one to behold
Send a message via AIM to Dilpickle1 Send a message via MSN to Dilpickle1 Send a message via Skype™ to Dilpickle1
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Locke View Post
I do believe one of the recent Android releases was actually closed source for the time being because they didn't want people running it on devices it wasn't designed for.
Android 3.0 was/is closed source because its really, at its core, a touch overlay above Android 2.3 and the code was sloppy. (or so i've heard)



Dilpickle1 is offline  

Old 07-11-2011, 09:21 PM   #16
Netrix
Purger of Ignorance
Development Front
Retired Staff
Super Zuner²
 
Netrix's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: In my own world
Posts: 4,268
Netrix has much to be proud ofNetrix has much to be proud ofNetrix has much to be proud ofNetrix has much to be proud ofNetrix has much to be proud ofNetrix has much to be proud ofNetrix has much to be proud of
Send a message via MSN to Netrix
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Locke View Post
I'm not confusing, I'm comparing. Microsoft hasn't said "have a ball with the Zune firmware on whatever you can run it on," but they have with Mango. They don't encourage "tinkering" as Bill Cox called it on the Zune, but he said "tinker away with Mango and enjoy the juice" regarding Mango. That's the point.
That makes such a big difference.

I just happen to care about actions, not words. Microsoft's actions have allowed the Zunes to continue to run native homebrew, causing it to be more open; Microsoft's discouraging words have not affected that. Microsoft's actions have prevented any meaningful homebrew on Windows Phone (starting with Mango), causing it to be pretty closed; Microsoft's encouraging words of tinkering have not helped it be more open in a useful way as of yet.

You can be surprised by Microsoft's encouraging words all you want, but I do not see the point. Saying "tinker away all you want" on something that is extremely locked down is pointless if it is not possible for anyone to do any useful tinkering.

It is possible that Microsoft will make it a bit more open in the future, but there is no evidence of that so far.

Last edited by Netrix; 07-11-2011 at 09:24 PM.




Netrix is offline  

Old 07-11-2011, 10:29 PM   #17
Wune
Jr. Member
 
Wune's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 329
Wune is on a distinguished road
Default

Thanks for proving my point.



Wune is offline  

Old 07-12-2011, 02:59 PM   #18
Bellic
Big mouth prick.
Expert Zuner
 
Bellic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 2,868
Bellic has a spectacular aura aboutBellic has a spectacular aura about
Default

Glad to see MS being more open. It's about time.

On a side note, is there a new front page layout or is my PC being stupid?




Bellic is offline  

Closed Thread

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
no new posts