__________________
Formally SmileDog.
Note: I prefer to have conversations over Skype, not over PM.
You will be bottom priority if I happen to be talking to a friend/relative.
thx Jorvette!
I learned in my 10th grade biology class that it's caused by a certain mixture of alleles. It occurs during meiosis, when the sperm and egg come together and begin to form the zygote/embryo.
Nothing 'causes' autism. That's bad terminology. Autism is developed. It is certainly not 'caused by anything biological.
Autism is not a disease; the disease-model is flawed. The problem, is that having labels, like 'autistic,' create reisms, or circular logic.
Why does Billy act strange?
Because he's autistic.
How do you know Billy is autistic?
Because he acts strange.
Therefore it must be some unseen, complex biological problem with Billy.
No.
People, or children with autistic repertoires(patterns of behavior), are normal people that have developed very maladaptive behavior patterns, which can be reversed. And they tend to be, using behavior analysis, and behavior modification techniques.
__________________
Better contraceptives will control population only if people will use them. A nuclear holocaust can be prevented only if the conditions under which nations make war can be changed. The environment will continue to deteriorate until pollution practices are abandoned. We need to make vast changes in human behavior. B.F. Skinner
We don't need no education!
We don't need no thought control,
No dark sarcasm in the classroom!
Teachers leave them kids alone,
Hey! Teachers! Leave them kids alone!
All in all it's just another brick in the wall.
All in all you're just another brick in the wall.
I'm sorry, but autism is caused. It's a mixture of genes. I don't know why you're getting defensive, I haven't said anything improper or even rude. I simply restated what was taught to me in my biology class (hint: genes are a biological feature)
Could this be the same as ADD/ADHD, where some theorize that it is not a biological issue, yet a bad parenting issue?
I, like Red Sky, learned that it is caused by the wrong amount of chromosomes during meiosis.
It's not just a theory. It's not necessarily a bad parenting issue, but you're on the right track. Autism is just a mentalistic name for a collection of maladaptive behavior patterns. Those behavior patterns are almost always set up and reinforced by the parents, or the environment.
Again, nothing to do with genes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Sky
I'm sorry, but autism is caused. It's a mixture of genes. I don't know why you're getting defensive, I haven't said anything improper or even rude. I simply restated what was taught to me in my biology class (hint: genes are a biological feature)
No.
You have said things that are just incorrect. There is little to no credible evidence that genes (or anything strictly biological) are the cause of autism. How could something caused by genes, be treated so effectively(the only effective treatment for autistic children) with strictly behavior therapy? Did you even read my entire post and the links? It seems as if you're clinging to an outdated view of autism from a high school biology class.
The fact that you were told something does not make it true. Autism is not caused by anything in the genes.
If you can find something that has proven that, I'd like to read it.
__________________
Better contraceptives will control population only if people will use them. A nuclear holocaust can be prevented only if the conditions under which nations make war can be changed. The environment will continue to deteriorate until pollution practices are abandoned. We need to make vast changes in human behavior. B.F. Skinner
It makes plenty of sense that it's genetic. Genetics don't determine everything, especially not when it comes to the brain. For example, general intelligence levels are genetic, but if you have a student who tries in school and challenges them self versus a student with similar genetic intelligence who does not, one will obviously be smarter than the other. I have no proof, but you can't simply say no, as you do not know. Also, both J and myself were taught that it IS genetic, regardless of whether or not that's true, we live no where near each other, so there has to be some sort of evidence that it's genetic. Don't come here and say no, and then provide no proof yourself. If anything, the fact that we've both been taught it serves as more proof.
It makes plenty of sense that it's genetic. Genetics don't determine everything, especially not when it comes to the brain. For example, general intelligence levels are genetic, but if you have a student who tries in school and challenges them self versus a student with similar genetic intelligence who does not, one will obviously be smarter than the other. I have no proof, but you can't simply say no, as you do not know. Also, both J and myself were taught that it IS genetic, regardless of whether or not that's true, we live no where near each other, so there has to be some sort of evidence that it's genetic. Don't come here and say no, and then provide no proof yourself. If anything, the fact that we've both been taught it serves as more proof.
Intelligence is also not genetic, but environmental, much like autism. Your information is outdated. Try to find something current, that doesn't tend to side with the idea that intelligence is environmental. Go ahead.
I posted links. I've not only linked you to proof, but explained. All you do is repeat a half-learned lesson from your incorrect biology class.
If it was caused by genetics, how could behavior therapy 'cure' these children, when all other remedies, including medicine, have almost no effect?
I posted a couple of these before, but you seem to have a hard time reading, so I'll post them again.
__________________
Better contraceptives will control population only if people will use them. A nuclear holocaust can be prevented only if the conditions under which nations make war can be changed. The environment will continue to deteriorate until pollution practices are abandoned. We need to make vast changes in human behavior. B.F. Skinner
I actually read them. At least the areas that seemed to have something to do with genetics. There's really no conclusive evidence that it is or is not genetic. Also, one source != proof. I'm sure you've written research papers and would realize that.
I'm not saying what I've learned is correct, but I'm also saying that you could very easily be wrong, so don't come charging through here cutting down what everyone says because you read one guy's website. Really, it doesn't work like that.
The evidence is as conclusive as it gets, you just have to accept it. Maybe you should go back and read those articles more carefully, especially the 'resistance' part(s).
I'm not wrong. As I said, the proof is there, quite conclusive. The advantage of behaviorism, is that it's quite easy to see if you're wrong or right. Either behavior changes, or it doesn't. It's not like genes, where even now in 2010, we have almost no idea of what's going on in the brain.
If the behavior of autistic people is changed by behavior therapy(the environment), doesn't it make sense that the behavior originated also, from the environment? Or are you suggesting that the behavior was caused by some unknown biological/genetic factor(s), and yet was still changed by the environment?
Those articles may all be from 'one guys website,' but Behavior Analysis is a science practiced around the world, and it's the only thing that's working incredibly well at helping people with autistic behavior. Those articles are written by different people, all in an effort to dispel the idiotic view that it is caused by genes. Despite over 60 years of looking for a genetic/biological cause, and none being found, people still stubbornly cling to that and refuse to accept any other solution, even though a better one is there. One that when applied to the treatment of autism is remarkably effective.
If you read anything completely, you would have seen those are articles are not all by that 'one guy,' but by behavior analysts all over the world, writing about autism.
Even though all you bring to this thread is what your high school teacher told you, here's another challenge. Find a popular, and broadly effective treatment for autism, other than behavior modification, or some form of behavioral therapy(occupational therapy, speech therapy, play therapy, etc.).
__________________
Better contraceptives will control population only if people will use them. A nuclear holocaust can be prevented only if the conditions under which nations make war can be changed. The environment will continue to deteriorate until pollution practices are abandoned. We need to make vast changes in human behavior. B.F. Skinner
I don't know. I can certainly see both sides. Like, my cousin for example has ADHD, Autism and Asbergers Syndrome. His parents never make him do anything or punish him for doing dangerous things and he is quite the little brat. I have, however, seen kids with the same "disorders" that are nice, pleasant people (albeit not completely normal). So I think that the severity does depend on their life situation, parental influences, etc.
And Putis, I agree with Red that you seem to be a little too harsh towards him. We can disagree peacefully, no flaming required
We don't need no education!
We don't need no thought control,
No dark sarcasm in the classroom!
Teachers leave them kids alone,
Hey! Teachers! Leave them kids alone!
All in all it's just another brick in the wall.
All in all you're just another brick in the wall.
I have a question, directed @Putis. How do small children have autism then? As in, young babies. I forget what age they can diagnose things such as Autism, but if it's environmentally caused, how do such young babies have it?
I don't know. I can certainly see both sides. Like, my cousin for example has ADHD, Autism and Asbergers Syndrome. His parents never make him do anything or punish him for doing dangerous things and he is quite the little brat. I have, however, seen kids with the same "disorders" that are nice, pleasant people (albeit not completely normal). So I think that the severity does depend on their life situation, parental influences, etc.
And Putis, I agree with Red that you seem to be a little too harsh towards him. We can disagree peacefully, no flaming required
Those are all similar 'disorders.' No biological cause, and yet people, for no reason, refuse to accept any other explanation for their child's behavior.
I've not flamed anyone. And only in my previous post did I actually insult him, though it was deserved.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Sky
I have a question, directed @Putis. How do small children have autism then? As in, young babies. I forget what age they can diagnose things such as Autism, but if it's environmentally caused, how do such young babies have it?
Do babies of whatever age, not produce behaviors? Are there not people in their environment, influencing them?
Every (living) organism despite age, behaves. That is they produce behavior as a result of their environment. So therefore any and all can behave in 'bad'(maladaptive) ways.
The 'criteria,' if you will, for autism, are not very specific. You can look it up if you'd like (I know you won't), but it basically boils down to whether or not a child behaves like the other children. So in that sense, it's very easy to be diagnosed with autism, at any age.
That's one of the reasons for the incredible rise in children with 'autism,' 'add/hd,' etc., in recent years.
__________________
Better contraceptives will control population only if people will use them. A nuclear holocaust can be prevented only if the conditions under which nations make war can be changed. The environment will continue to deteriorate until pollution practices are abandoned. We need to make vast changes in human behavior. B.F. Skinner
While I agree that babies to develop behaviours, I think that from 0-3 weeks is too early for them to be influenced by environmental factors towards displaying Autistic type qualities. Whereas, if it was genetic, they would have it from birth. Like I said earlier, I really don't know, I'm just calling it as I see it.
We don't need no education!
We don't need no thought control,
No dark sarcasm in the classroom!
Teachers leave them kids alone,
Hey! Teachers! Leave them kids alone!
All in all it's just another brick in the wall.
All in all you're just another brick in the wall.
While I agree that babies to develop behaviours, I think that from 0-3 weeks is too early for them to be influenced by environmental factors towards displaying Autistic type qualities. Whereas, if it was genetic, they would have it from birth. Like I said earlier, I really don't know, I'm just calling it as I see it.
So in a child's first 3 weeks of life, it is immune to environmental factors? Do children not almost immediately become attached to their caregivers?
It is never too early. They have sense, just as you or I, so they are being affected by their environment.
Also, the point of the end of my last post was to show that being diagnosed with autism, does not mean that the child is 'autistic.' Whatever the cause is, I think it's very obvious that there is a bit of over-diagnosing of autism these days.
__________________
Better contraceptives will control population only if people will use them. A nuclear holocaust can be prevented only if the conditions under which nations make war can be changed. The environment will continue to deteriorate until pollution practices are abandoned. We need to make vast changes in human behavior. B.F. Skinner
We don't need no education!
We don't need no thought control,
No dark sarcasm in the classroom!
Teachers leave them kids alone,
Hey! Teachers! Leave them kids alone!
All in all it's just another brick in the wall.
All in all you're just another brick in the wall.
Unfortunately, when parents hear that autism is not caused by genes, but by behavioral contingencies (the child's environment), they become defensive. Incorrectly, they assume that that means that it is their fault, which isn't the case. Hence, such resistance. When really, the whole point is to help these children. So, if we finally discover this magical gene(s) that causes autism, what then?
On the other hand, knowing that autism is not a disease, but developed through the environment is very powerful. It allows behavior analysts to help childen. Children who can't speak one word, are forming sentences in a matter of months. Kids who are only involved in self-stimulation, learn how to play with other kids.
Mmm. The power of behaviorism.
__________________
Better contraceptives will control population only if people will use them. A nuclear holocaust can be prevented only if the conditions under which nations make war can be changed. The environment will continue to deteriorate until pollution practices are abandoned. We need to make vast changes in human behavior. B.F. Skinner
We don't need no education!
We don't need no thought control,
No dark sarcasm in the classroom!
Teachers leave them kids alone,
Hey! Teachers! Leave them kids alone!
All in all it's just another brick in the wall.
All in all you're just another brick in the wall.
There are all kinds of over-diagnoses. I think ADHD/ADD is much more over diagnosed than Autism. I wouldn't even put the two together, since true Autism is much more serious than ADD. But that's just me.
Exactly, no parent wants to take the blame for being a suckass parent so they go to something uncontrollable: genes.
Although my point still stands. I'm sure it's not all related to genetics, but I have a feeling it's a mixture of both.
Now you got it!
Of course it is related to genetics, but that does not mean that it's sole cause is genetics, and so that is where our sole focus should be. Almost everything is related to genetics, but not necessarily caused by them.
__________________
Better contraceptives will control population only if people will use them. A nuclear holocaust can be prevented only if the conditions under which nations make war can be changed. The environment will continue to deteriorate until pollution practices are abandoned. We need to make vast changes in human behavior. B.F. Skinner
What do you think causes autism?
