that;s not really the point of what i was saying again... you keep failing to see it. my point is that those practicing Islam are not the only ones doing violent actions for their faith. I mean that we cannot prosecute all Muslims because they are related, by a religion, to their extremist counterparts. I was merely using the KKK as an example that uses religion (which it does, look at some KKK group meetings) to support its actions.
That's been what I've been saying all along, you know. There are some Muslims that commit acts of terrorism. Many don't. But regardless, both are Muslims, and both are devout Muslims. KKK members, on the other hand, aren't Christians, since their views clearly contradict the Bible, whereas there is at least debate over who's right in the Muslim world. KKK members are KKK members first, Christians second: Christianity is just a title they throw around to supposedly lend credence to their views. In contrast, Muslim extremists are just as Muslim as any other ordinary Muslim.
Now, I've never argued that because some Muslims hold to different views than others that we should in any way persecute those who don't hold to violent views; all I've objected to is your comparison of the KKK to this whole deal. It's a false and innappropriate metaphor that should not stand unchalleneged.
Wrong again. The KKK and Muslim terrorists are completely different. Know why? Because Muslims extremists are Muslims, and KKK members aren't Christians. Muslims extremists follow the Koran more strictly than do many Muslims, who might skirt around more controversial passages. They take the strongest, most literal interpretation they can have. KKK members are Christians in name only, with a few flimsy misquoted verses used as "support," and little else. Their views are about as Biblically supported as the old-and long discarded-Mormon belief that people are black because they refused to help God before they were born, and that was some form of curse. Muslim extremists do take some liberties with their views, but they largely live by the letter of the Koran, far more than any real Christian does the Bible, let along the wishy-washy KKK'ers. There's no comparison between the two groups. Though I don't approve of killing people because they "have not yet realized that they are Muslim," I can strongly admire their sheer and sole devotion to their beliefs, such that they would willingly end their own lives if it meant even a chance at advancing God's work. This devotion is something long absent in Christianity, and in fact, many religions: to truly be faithful unto death. The KKK is a sad, watered down group of people just looking to put someone else down like a schoolyard bully. Were it not for the viciousness of their acts, the faith and devotion of Muslim extremists would be beautiful, an example of how people should be. People should be devoted to what they believe, should be willing to stake their life on it. The problem is that people today don't believe in anything, and drown in nothingness, lack of purpose.
You are sort of right. the recruits which the extremists get are all very religious true. but the leaders are not. they are motivated only by revenge, hate for the white man, money, and personal gain. no muslim, otherwise, would order rape as a sort of punishment, or any disrespect to women, for that matter. everyone would stand equal, simply on the grounds that they are human beings. that is what islam teaches us. what you follow is supposed to be your own business. we are supposed to care about ourselves, our family, and if we do convert someone, it is supposed to be because we made them see the good nature in islam through our gentle persuasion, and they should truly believe in it. we shouldn't go around with explosives forcing everyone to be a muslim, because then they would not really believe in it, and probably hate islam. these "leaders wouldn't consume alcohol either. which is what happens. ïn fact, for most of the muslims, these extremists have stopped being muslim ever since they took up this "cause". Jihad is supposed to happen only in self-defense. most of the people really don't see the self-defense in there. Islam literally means peace. i don't think this is it's true meaning.
and what the others are trying to say Locke, is that regardless of whether they believed or not, the banner of religion was the excuse for all these groups.
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Shirou: 'People die when they are killed'...
I don't like them. Sorry that's my opinion. Until i start hearing more Muslims denouncing extremism i will continue to dislike them. I find their culture dirty, oppressive to woman and homosexuals, barbaric and uncivilized, because we are at war with the extremist does not mean i have to be politically correct and say i like them all. Because i don't, and I'm just being honest. They are not the religion of peace. And don't try to tell me nuns suicide bomb cafe's full of Jewish family's and fly plains into our sky scrapers.
Last time i checked Christians get made fun of ALL the time and do not react as such
I don't like them. Sorry that's my opinion. Until i start hearing more Christians denouncing extremism i will continue to dislike them. I find their culture dirty, oppressive to woman and homosexuals, barbaric and uncivilized.
Just figured I'd show how that logic applies to the Christians just as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArrghMatey!
And don't try to tell me nuns suicide bomb cafe's full of Jewish family's and fly plains into our sky scrapers.
No... many christians however do do such things as pray for the death of an individual(The teabaggers and Obama come to mind), cast death threats on nonbelievers(you should see some of the comments I reject on my blog), or, in the more extreme cases, bomb abortion clinics or shoot abortion doctors
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArrghMatey!
Last time i checked Christians get made fun of ALL the time and do not react as such
No... they aren't as violent, however they complain and moan just as much.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus Aurelius
Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones.
@jorv: Oh yes, sorry, it is... my mind is not seeming to function today *blush*
@arrgh: exactly what do you mean by 'oppressive to women'? Islam is a very, perhaps the most, egalitarian and non-sexist religion. As for homosexuality, yes we don't condone it, but i still don't get your point. Muslims believe that we are not the ones to judge, that is God's duty, and the only people we really have to worry about is ourselves and our immediate family, and even then, we follow an 'each to his/her own' policy. 'Barbaric and uncivilized'? Where did you get that from? I think you are basing your opinions by the extremists you are seeing that are not the perfect muslims. In fact, the 'barbarism' you see to point to is probably their tribal culture which they insist on following, even though it is not a part of Islam.
i am not asking you to be 'politically correct' or just follow the crowd's opinions. i want to know your opinions and on what basis you have established them. As i have mentioned before, you can hate it, and even though that hurts me as a muslim, i am not going to fight against you over it. all i ask is that you actually review the facts before you state your opinion. And neither have i made this thread to bash other religions. i know that there are bad people, and sometimes they do stuff using their religion as a front. Islam is a religion of peace, and we are to respect all other religions, especially the people of the book [i.e Christians and Jews].
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Shirou: 'People die when they are killed'...
こんなところ来とうはなかった
Last edited by moyamoya; 01-13-2010 at 11:58 PM.
Reason: stupidity
@jorv: Oh yes, sorry, it is... my mind is not seeming to function today *blush*
@arrgh: exactly what do you mean by 'oppressive to women'? Islam is a very, perhaps the most, egalitarian and non-sexist religion. As for homosexuality, yes we don't condone it, but i still don't get your point. Muslims believe that we are not the ones to judge, that is God's duty, and the only people we really have to worry about is ourselves and our immediate family, and even then, we follow an 'each to his/her own' policy. 'Barbaric and uncivilized'? Where did you get that from? I think you are basing your opinions by the extremists you are seeing that are not the perfect muslims. In fact, the 'barbarism' you see to point to is probably their tribal culture which they insist on following, even though it is not a part of Islam.
i am not asking you to be 'politically correct' or just follow the crowd's opinions. i want to know your opinions and on what basis you have established them. As i have mentioned before, you can hate it, and even though that hurts me as a muslim, i am not going to fight against you over it. all i ask is that you actually review the facts before you state your opinion. And neither have i made this thread to bash other religions. i know that there are bad people, and sometimes they do stuff using their religion as a front. Islam is a religion of peace, and we are to respect all other religions, especially the people of the book [i.e Christians and Jews].
