Stephen Hawking calls for Moon and Mars colonies

[Nurta]

Originally Posted by 133794m3r

Yes, I do. I've studied the Quantum. I've read his theroy. It's all ****ing bull****. All ****ing bull****. Nothing works out. I mean what the **** the entire thing goes against the theory of special and general relativity and the law of the conservation of matter and energy. And thus it's ****ing bull****.

Wow, that's a scientific attitude to take It goes against old theory therefore it's bull****.

I admit I don't know Hawking that well, I know the basics of black holes and that's about it.

As for the information paradox, there are a few explanations for it, including Hawking's that the information exists in other dimensions. As well, it is a minor issue, the alternative theory, the projection idea is probably correct IMO, but meh.

His work may be disproven or proven in time. He started before blackholes were really "proven" to exist.

For YOU to call him an idiot is almost humorous.

Do you think that people who "studied the Quantum" criticized Heisenberg for saying that it is not possible to know where a particle is? Of course they did, but evidence proved it is true and through science, it is right (to the best of our knowledge).

I find your insults on Hawking unforgivable ignorance. He may not be right, but we might be wrong on a million things.

Know I disagree with Hawking on many things and think his pop-cultural influence is greater than it should be based on his scientific research. However, I respect him as a scientist (and his work), regardless of whether in the future his work is viewed as the relativity of the new age, or as accurate as a geocentric view, or somewhere in between.



As for the original point, I think we should have more spending on science and technology in general, including space exploration. Just as we can discover so much on earth, we can discover so much in space. Eventually we will hit our limits on earth, in natural resources or in space or in new discoveries. Consider how useful satellites are, investment in technology yields positive results.

Unfortunately, we only went to the moon to beat Russia. I doubt there will be a strong enough political reason to continue a strong space exploration program. So I expect future space exploration to be led by corporations, it's the wave of the future, give man the power and he can go to the moon and beyond.

Also, as for the economy. So what? The current recession is going to be over soon enough that by the time bills get passed to give more money to NASA, it'll be fine. In the longterm, we just need to have a president who doesn't say screw it and goes and fights a war. "It's the economy, stupid" We need a president who has that as their motto (again) and makes that their first priority to start biting it down. But again, I think politics is against space exploration and so it goes to the corporations, who have the ingenuity to make a profit on it.

[Gow616]

Originally Posted by floorpuncher

Are you serious? Give them something to dream about? Give who something to dream about? The youth that we're robbing right now to fund these ridiculous programs?

Yet the programs are not even in the works they are just plans of plans. Do we have a Mars expedition currently ready to go? No. There is no robbing going on because the programs aren't even in the works. This is just a discussion to get the plans for such programs in the works. Seriously, you think they are robbing funds away with hypothetical projects?

I think you should really look at where that money is being spent...
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/04/09/space_spending/

Satellite TV and GPS...oh boy that is something having to do with Space Exploration, ain't it?

I thought those two things had to do with Earth, those little GPS things and entertainment.

Guess, you should yell at people spending money on frivolous space technology.

Originally Posted by floorpuncher

You ridicule the idea of a pessimistic view while at the same time you perpetuate the very same pessimistic idea that "economic, social and political problems are rooted in the core of humanity"....

Not exactly, the trick is to make it a one-two punch. Give them something to hope for and at the same time refocus the effort that has so far been wasted into actual change not hope for change or change in the face of hope. Oh no, lets just leave home base without preparation...oh wait we ran out of supplies for our colony...gah, we are all dead.

Come on, I know you are smarter than that. It takes two to tango and it will take an effort on both fronts to accomplish it. By the by, remember this is a discussion of a discussion of making plans for a plan to explore space. Nothing has been done funding wise or elsewhere other than us discussing it here.

A better world is one we make ourselves not what planet we reside on, at least that is how I thought most people would think of a better world is. After all, we can discuss this to the Sun expands engulfing the Earth before it goes Supernova but it won't change the fact that we are discussing making a better world with little real action to do so.

We can make the problems of the world the highest of priorities but what have we done to fix them? I can personally say I have volunteered here and there, as well as being there to listen for people who need a person to talk to.

Do we really think that just focusing on problems will fix them? I thought action was the key factor in any solution to a problem.

Money can't solve every problem, I figured that would have been common knowledge by now as every project the Government just throws money at has not fixed itself with that funding.

As for the international space station, it has been an international effort with discoveries geared towards making life better on Earth. Do we just stop spending money on making discoveries that might cure some of these problems? The stated pricetag you put on it is its total cost over the years it has taken to build it, when you spread that price over those years you find that its cost is quite low compared to other drains, such as War, Israel-Palestine, Social Security, etcetera. Plus the US is not flipping the entire bill since it is an International Space Station.

[Nurta]

Originally Posted by Gow616

Yet the programs are not even in the works they are just plans of plans. Do we have a Mars expedition currently ready to go? No. There is no robbing going on because the programs aren't even in the works. This is just a discussion to get the plans for such programs in the works. Seriously, you think they are robbing funds away with hypothetical projects?

I think you should really look at where that money is being spent...
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/04/09/space_spending/

Satellite TV and GPS...oh boy that is something having to do with Space Exploration, ain't it?

I thought those two things had to do with Earth, those little GPS things and entertainment.

Guess, you should yell at people spending money on frivolous space technology.

Just for reference, the GPS and Satellite TV spending are not government spending, it's private spending.

The Space Report 2008 also reveals that satellite-based products and services and U.S. government spending on space again comprise the two largest segments of the space industry at 55 percent and 25 percent of total revenues, respectively. Direct-to-home television and Global Positioning System equipment and chipsets, the two largest sub-segments of the commercial space industry, also posted the strongest growth numbers in 2007, with 19 percent and 20 percent increases, respectively.

[Little Horn]

I think you're taking everything that I've posted entirely out of context and I think that this may be why we aren't seeing eye to eye.

I understand that some of these projects aren't in the works and I understand that therefor we can not rob anybody of anything. I'm aware of all this. But we DO spend "make-believe" money on the space program.

The over all point is that the money that the government puts into the CURRENT programs does not exist. If the government is going to make up money to spend they should do it on something that is a little more worth-while. something that will benefit EVERYBODY NOW. Not 50 years from now but right now. Why not pump some of that "pretend" money into the school systems so our children are all a bunch of idiots?

I'm at a point where I don't even know what else to say... honestly. I'm dumbfounded right now. I'm going to bed and perhaps I will try agian tomorrow.

[Gow616]

Originally Posted by Nurta

Just for reference, the GPS and Satellite TV spending are not government spending, it's private spending.

		Shh, its the Government.

Can't I be facetious?

Originally Posted by floorpuncher

The over all point is that the money that the government puts into the CURRENT programs does not exist. If the government is going to make up money to spend they should do it on something that is a little more worth-while. something that will benefit EVERYBODY NOW. Not 50 years from now but right now. Why not pump some of that "pretend" money into the school systems so our children are all a bunch of idiots?

They do this with a lot more than just the Space Program, like the Economic Stimulus Package. Current political candidates speak out about how the price of gas is high but fail to mention that the price would be cut in half if the taxes were cut off it. Government will always want to spend money whether its on bridges that happen to reside on a Senator's land, Global Warming Solution programs or something other just as silly.

We can spend money on education but what would more money gain them if the system is not changed? The same problems but with more money to waste is my guess. Actually, the one thing we need the government to do is to cut spending across the board so that people have more money and will give to programs that actually HELP people now. Such as charitable organizations as Food banks, Salvation Army, local Churches, Free Dental and Health, et cetera.

To get the Government to spend less money is one problem that should be the highest priority on anyone's list.

[Little Horn]

I'm not arguing that point at all. I agree that the government is spending money in more places that just the space program. I think I read somewhere that almost 50% (I'm not sure of exact numbers) of taxes is spent on social programs like welfare, section 8 housing, federal funded health care, etc... There is a huge misappropriation of funds across the board. I've said since day one that the $168 Billion that government is so kind to give us in this stimulus plan doesn't exist. They just made the money up and this is where the problem is.

It's not about the space program. The space program just happened to be the topic at hand. It's the billions of dollars that we pump into the welfare system so that lazy/incompetent people can continue to live in their ****ty trailer for two or three generations. It's the billions of dollars that we pump into food, water, medical care, housing and schools for OTHER countries.

Those are the billions of dollars that DON'T get put into the school systems that desperately need new text books, libraries, music and sports programs and better facilities all around. These are things that a lot of school across the country are lacking because of short funding. You don't need to reorganize the school system to make them better. If you give them the money to properly educate children this alleviate a lot of the problems. Not all of them but a lot.

As for the taxes on gas... the federal gas tax is only $.18. Callilfornia, who has the highest state gas tax is only $.45. Like I said this is in California, who is paying the highest state gas tax in the nation so in other states it's actually lower. Together that makes $.63. Just over half of a dollar. Last time I put gas in my car (this morning ) the cheapest place in town was at $3.68. Now I'm not all that great with math but if you were to take away the federal and state gas tax that would still have the gas prices over $3.00. That's not quite half. Even if you took away the sales tax that is attached to anything you buy in most states (7.5% in California) you're still left paying almost 3 bucks a gallon. This is not near the half that you speak of unless I am missing something all together.

I'm not completely ignorant to the current government spending. I'm well aware of the situation at hand. As I said though, the space program was the topic at hand and I went for the throat.

[Napoleon Iven Quinnly]

well the universe is still expanding so i figure that God must intend on us using it, as for the budget....not so much, we could spend way less, wat we really need is more money put in education, that would be a better bet for space colonization as it would give us the minds of the future

[Bear holding a shark]

So money now makes kids smarter? I don't know if you guys have been to a high school recently, but the kids that want to learn, DO LEARN. Then the other 60% of kids don't give a **** about their futures, so they piss it away fooling around and distracting others. So if your money is magically gonna make these kids give a rat's ass, then by all means, go for it.

[Trogdor]

slacking is popular in most social circles

[Napoleon Iven Quinnly]

true but the kids that do want to learn dont always have the resourcers they need to succeed, this is especially prevelent in the dying small town america, and some kids are on the line of wanting to learn and not wanting to and by spending money to make learning better and more cool the general population will see the need to educate itself

[Gow616]

Originally Posted by Napoleon Iven Quinnly

true but the kids that do want to learn dont always have the resourcers they need to succeed, this is especially prevelent in the dying small town america, and some kids are on the line of wanting to learn and not wanting to and by spending money to make learning better and more cool the general population will see the need to educate itself

..to vote for their favorite idol on American Idol.

[Napoleon Iven Quinnly]

Oh vote for David Cook, hes from Tulsa, but was born in Missouri!, wait a min werenent this to be about stephen hawking?

[Gow616]

Here is my comment put into context.

Originally Posted by Napoleon Iven Quinnly

... and some kids are on the line of wanting to learn and not wanting to and by spending money to make learning better and more cool the general population will see the need to educate itself..to vote for their favorite idol on American Idol.

[mr.handsomeman]

Originally Posted by floorpuncher

Our economy will not just recover on it's own. That's the mind set that our leaders have had for the past five years and look where it's gotten us. The last that I read our national deficit was right around $400 Billion. yes, that is a real number and it's all dollars that we have spent that don't exist. Where is the money going to come from to cover this? The tax payers that's right! Well that and the already negative Social Security fund that I'm paying into every month and will never see a penny of it back.



"We'll recover"... that kind of attitude is dangerous and counter-productive.

the economy won't recover on it's own, the government fixes the economy. They have the power to get us out of recession and to put us into it, they're doing it for a reason. The reason we're in recession? Government. It wasn't an accident, they did it on purpose because if they didn't, inflation would go up the butt and then we'd be like Zimbabwe, paying 900 million for a dinner plate.

BTW, the debt for our country is over 9,000,000,000,000. (that's trillion for you)

we don't have a negative social security fund. it's just that the baby boomers generation is finally coming to age and we dont have the money to pay for them all. We're SUPOSSED to have enough money, but past presidents and the