Tired Man and Cynical Man (Political discussion)

[Gow616]

Originally Posted by Nurta

Seen part of it, I watched the beginning and just got bored of it honestly. I can't tolerate black and white well, too boring to me

Than you probably wouldn't like a myriad of other black and white films, like Samurai Fiction, Tzameti, etcetera.

Originally Posted by Nurta

Of course now it isn't a misdemeanor, it also isn't legal now... I don't see what your point with saying that is...

My point was trying to illustrate the fact that the reason it is not being treated so is because of the laws stemming from propaganda and politics that created such a film as Reefer Madness stating the "truth" about marijuana that helped to create laws making the substance illegal. Sigmund Freud proscribed cocaine and we all know how Coca-Cola got its name but politicians came in and made it illegal due to pressure from religious and feminist groups.

After all the drug prohibition comes from the same period that created the prohibition on alcohol. At a time when all the effects of the substances were not studied but based on supposed worse case scenarios that were either partially true or not at all but who cared Senator So and So talked the people into supporting the law.

Democrats and Republicans have been nothing but trouble for this country with their two party antics. "The only thing we have to fear is feat itself" sounds good but its ultimately an empty statement. Returning to a more constitutional government is the only way to improve our situation, anarchy is fine and dandy for teenagers who feel angst against their parent's authority but ultimately they should grow out of it. Sticking with the far left or far right on this or any other issue a person becomes so inundated with propaganda that they feel the other side is wrong and don't look for common ground OR see that both are essentially the same and have been so for the past 80 years.

"Don't vote for Candidate A because he believes in taxes!"
"Don't vote for Candidate B because he believes in tax relief for the rich!"
Etcetera, ad nauseum.

Maybe we should ban political parties as they obviously are as addicting as nicotine and people always tend to show up "high" when looking at an issue. Congress might get something done other than in-fighting, propaganda and pork barrelling.

Coincidentally, lawmakers (alias Congress) quit getting the whole random urine drug testing due to many positive results. Yet, they lambaste and bombast about stopping drugs... oh how far low the hippie/boomer generation have sunk. Creating Drug Lords in the process. The by-product of party A is better than party B, or vice versa depending on your pleasure.

Although, I do fear the government using drugs as a method of control, I doubt they would have the guts to do so, especially when by the means of media and just a few hints of how party A is worse than party B, or vice versa, they can control a lot easier than the drug testing did.

Admittedly, the selfishness of the individual has caused a lot of problems with the law system as people file suit against people, yet that stems from lawyers and politicians manipulating the system to bring it about as a way control corporations who don't buy into their game. After all, if either party was serious about being unselfish they would initiate some Tort Reform.

Also, of course the corporation is not to be trusted as most are geared towards a profit first mindset and damning consequences as they go but the anti-corporations use the same mindset. A balance is better than over-regulation or de-regulation but free trade between countries could be preferable to the old system of tariff.

Weed is not needed as a vehicle of mass marketed happiness for the consumer to enjoy as the consumer is basically "high" on what they are already indoctrinated to be.

So ends the late night rambling of a tired man.

[Deiparous]

Originally Posted by Gow

Than you probably wouldn't like a myriad of other black and white films, like Samurai Fiction, Tzameti, etcetera.

Probably not. Some things I can stand, like Gomer Pyle ;p

My point was trying to illustrate the fact that the reason it is not being treated so is because of the laws stemming from propaganda and politics that created such a film as Reefer Madness stating the "truth" about marijuana that helped to create laws making the substance illegal. Sigmund Freud proscribed cocaine and we all know how Coca-Cola got its name but politicians came in and made it illegal due to pressure from religious and feminist groups.

After all the drug prohibition comes from the same period that created the prohibition on alcohol. At a time when all the effects of the substances were not studied but based on supposed worse case scenarios that were either partially true or not at all but who cared Senator So and So talked the people into supporting the law.

Sure, but just because something is originally caused for the wrong reason, that doesn't mean that it's wrong. What we need to consider is whether it is wrong now. Knowing the dirty history is nice, but it doesn't usually help you address things in the future.

Democrats and Republicans have been nothing but trouble for this country with their two party antics. "The only thing we have to fear is feat itself" sounds good but its ultimately an empty statement. Returning to a more constitutional government is the only way to improve our situation, anarchy is fine and dandy for teenagers who feel angst against their parent's authority but ultimately they should grow out of it. Sticking with the far left or far right on this or any other issue a person becomes so inundated with propaganda that they feel the other side is wrong and don't look for common ground OR see that both are essentially the same and have been so for the past 80 years.

Heh, well here is where the offtopic tags start coming in. Really, parties are weird. It is easy to blame parties for everything, but really it's just human nature. I mean people will always just follow the pundits because it's easier than thinking. Even without parties people will get a belief and use belief bias to prove what they think.

Honestly, "a more constitutional government" might not be the best. The Constitution in some ways is outdated, hence the huge number of amendments. The original constitution had the senators elect the president because they didn't trust the uneducated masses to do it. Then the first election there was any voting on, Jackson was voted in and the white house was torn apart because he just had a giant uncontrolled party... But if you wan the constitution with the amendments or want to rewrite the constitution, you have the same problems as always. Just because you get rid of the parties then you will still have the same people, with the same thoughts as always. There will still be Fox news and CNN teaching people their thoughts.

"Don't vote for Candidate A because he believes in taxes!"
"Don't vote for Candidate B because he believes in tax relief for the rich!"
Etcetera, ad nauseum.

Slogans work better than reasoning, haven't you heard? Despite what we might want to think, most people simply take the easy way out and skip to the conclusion and don't read the reasons. Would anyone vote to give away their rights? Yet we do it on a day to day basis for the idea of "safety" which when you look at the numbers, it's better to live in a war zone than a hospital. More people die from gunshots than terrorism, even on September 11th. yet people just see fear mongering and out of fear, shut off. It will always happen, it is built into human nature from years of evolution, fear means something scary, something risky of life. Anything to avoid that is best, don't do anything to risk life. Evolution doesn't expect that people will lie to you, because greed doesn't come in until you have conflicting interests, which requires a large scale society with different social groups that aren't in open warfare, but are in conflict...

Maybe we should ban political parties as they obviously are as addicting as nicotine and people always tend to show up "high" when looking at an issue. Congress might get something done other than in-fighting, propaganda and pork barrelling.

Parties are natural, look at society, we always form parties and related groups. We always find those who think like us so we don't have to think.

Coincidentally, lawmakers (alias Congress) quit getting the whole random urine drug testing due to many positive results. Yet, they lambaste and bombast about stopping drugs... oh how far low the hippie/boomer generation have sunk. Creating Drug Lords in the process. The by-product of party A is better than party B, or vice versa depending on your pleasure.

yeah, politicians suck, they are people in power. People don't do well with power. But again, it's human nature. Even without parties we will have politicians, no way to get around that. Even in anarchy you'll have politicians because governments form naturally. You would need a group to stop governments. And a government in its simplest form is a man who controls everything, no government that can be maintained doesn't have a single most powerful person, it's the natural order.

Although, I do fear the government using drugs as a method of control, I doubt they would have the guts to do so, especially when by the means of media and just a few hints of how party A is worse than party B, or vice versa, they can control a lot easier than the drug testing did.

Yeah, psychology shows us this

Admittedly, the selfishness of the individual has caused a lot of problems with the law system as people file suit against people, yet that stems from lawyers and politicians manipulating the system to bring it about as a way control corporations who don't buy into their game. After all, if either party was serious about being unselfish they would initiate some Tort Reform.

Meh, the use of the law for the government to control is the only way to do it. That and incentives. I mean, the law is how the government rules, you go against a governmental rule, you get brought into court, same as corporations. No one is unselfish. No human at least. It is human nature to put yourself first. Sacrificing yourself for others is simply a catastrophic error due to society. If you die, what does it matter about everyone else? Even compassion is simply a way to preserve yourself, rooted at the idea of 'it could happen to me'

Also, of course the corporation is not to be trusted as most are geared towards a profit first mindset and damning consequences as they go but the anti-corporations use the same mindset. A balance is better than over-regulation or de-regulation but free trade between countries could be preferable to the old system of tariff.

Yes, that's the beauty of capitalism. Use personal interest to create parallel interests, I want money and you want money so we'll work together to get money. Of course, Adam Smith wasn't a god, so his ideas weren't perfect. Keynes had to come in and correct some logistical misunderstandings and regulation was decided as neccesary.

However, government's problems are mostly due to corporations no wanting to obey. They become clever because the greatest minds are involved in the biggest corporations. It is an idiot who doesn't find a way to get what they want, which is often money. Why obey the government? Sure it helps the economy, but the interest of the economy isn't the same as the intereest of one company. So therefore many companies find ways to give an incentive to have the government obey them, rather than the other way around. This all comes into the idea of people who bribe politicians and makes politic lucrative. Therefore the people who go into politics are dirty. Really, corporations are simply humanity concentrate, people out for themselves. The only way to fix things is to use our abstract thought (where humanity is weak) to figure out how to point people in the same direction and control where it doesn't.

Weed is not needed as a vehicle of mass marketed happiness for the consumer to enjoy as the consumer is basically "high" on what they are already indoctrinated to be.

Weed is how the government brings down the inner city

So ends the late night rambling of a tired man.

So ends the early night rambling of a cynical man.

[Gow616]

Originally Posted by Nurta

So ends the early night rambling of a cynical man.

After reading it again, I figured I went to far off topic when I was half-awake and half-asleep. So, I moved your post and mine to a new thread since in essence we have created a topic of our own that addresses the a wider range than just weed legalization's topic focus.

Hope you don't mind that I did this.

[Deiparous]

Originally Posted by Gow

After reading it again, I figured I went to far off topic when I was half-awake and half-asleep. So, I moved your post and mine to a new thread since in essence we have created a topic of our own that addresses the a wider range than just weed legalization's topic focus.

Hope you don't mind that I did this.

haha, no it's a good idea.

but now I feel obligated to follow through with the thread

[Gow616]

Originally Posted by Nurta

haha, no it's a good idea.

but now I feel obligated to follow through with the thread

So do I

I was hoping by splitting it off more would join in but alas it doesn't seem the case at the moment.

Originally Posted by Nurta

Honestly, "a more constitutional government" might not be the best. The Constitution in some ways is outdated, hence the huge number of amendments. The original constitution had the senators elect the president because they didn't trust the uneducated masses to do it. Then the first election there was any voting on, Jackson was voted in and the white house was torn apart because he just had a giant uncontrolled party... But if you wan the constitution with the amendments or want to rewrite the constitution, you have the same problems as always. Just because you get rid of the parties then you will still have the same people, with the same thoughts as always. There will still be Fox news and CNN teaching people their thoughts.

True and the sad part is especially the last part. People just can't find time to educate themselves and with the internet it has become too easy to do so albeit at a risk. The risk being that there is quite a bit of information out there and quite easily to get it from a the wrong/misguided source.

I do use factcheck quite a bit.

http://www.factcheck.org/

Maybe when I'm tired I am a idealist but when I'm not I feel like more of a pessimist since most solutions end up being a Catch 22.

[Deiparous]

Originally Posted by Gow

So do I

I was hoping by splitting it off more would join in but alas it doesn't seem the case at the moment.

The posts are too long, no one wants to read it. Honestly I barely forced myself to

True and the sad part is especially the last part. People just can't find time to educate themselves and with the internet it has become too easy to do so albeit at a risk. The risk being that there is quite a bit of information out there and quite easily to get it from a the wrong/misguided source.

I do use factcheck quite a bit.

http://www.factcheck.org/

Maybe when I'm tired I am a idealist but when I'm not I feel like more of a pessimist since most solutions end up being a Catch 22.

Heh, my problem is even those sources are hard to believe. I mean, they might be less biased, bnut the only way to get an unbiased view is to read alot of biased view and form your own bias based off them. Heh, without logic we are all optimistic, with logic we are all pessimists.

[Gow616]

Yes, the problem with the media is that William Randolph Hearst is was one man who controlled the media and now we have many little Hearsts hoping to have the same effect through biased information. It was surprising to see the results of the UCLA study that found many were News sites were not as unbiased as they first appeared. Not to mention the ratings whoring that Television News does because sex, drugs, scandal and violence sell so well to the consumer.

What is funny is people who think one can reach a state of truly objective view. Problem is we can't remove subjectiveness from our objectiveness because we all have an opinion.

Gah, ignorance is bliss but an unexamined life is a life not worth living. Damn you, Socrates!

[Deiparous]

Originally Posted by Gow

Yes, the problem with the media is that William Randolph Hearst is was one man who controlled the media and now we have many little Hearsts hoping to have the same effect through biased information. It was surprising to see the results of the UCLA study that found many were News sites were not as unbiased as they first appeared. Not to mention the ratings whoring that Television News does because sex, drugs, scandal and violence sell so well to the consumer.

Because you can only afford to broadcast if you have money and if you have money you are going through a corporation. If you are in a corporation 95% of the time it is only about money and truth does not earn money

What is funny is people who think one can reach a state of truly objective view. Problem is we can't remove subjectiveness from our objectiveness because we all have an opinion.

duh

Gah, ignorance is bliss but an unexamined life is a life not worth living. Damn you, Socrates!

The ultimate final conclusion of all valid arguments is that life sucks. We are weak and nothing makes sense, everything has a double meaning. You can't stop life and you can't live it. So we do what we are programmed to do.

[Gow616]

Originally Posted by Nurta

The ultimate final conclusion of all valid arguments is that life sucks. We are weak and nothing makes sense, everything has a double meaning. You can't stop life and you can't live it. So we do what we are programmed to do.

Makes me think of that Mel Brooks film, Life Stinks.

Everything is a race to perpetuate our genetic code or our minds, no alternatives. Too bad we don't have a serious space exploration program going because I would so be there for that ticket to ride on that rocket to Mars. They would call me rocketman as I spend all Saturday night fighting with Benny and the Jets over who could walk on that yellow brick road. Singing an anthem to the Tom Sawyers of yesteryear as I boldly go where no man has gone before.

[Deiparous]

Originally Posted by Gow

Makes me think of that Mel Brooks film, Life Stinks.

Everything is a race to perpetuate our genetic code or our minds, no alternatives. Too bad we don't have a serious space exploration program going because I would so be there for that ticket to ride on that rocket to Mars. They would call me rocketman as I spend all Saturday night fighting with Benny and the Jets over who could walk on that yellow brick road. Singing an anthem to the Tom Sawyers of yesteryear as I boldly go where no man has gone before.

tired man, are you drunk man?

[Gow616]

Originally Posted by Nurta

tired man, are you drunk man?

No, I was going for most song titles in a single paragraph...but not at first.

What are your thoughts on Healthcare reform? Personally, universal healthcare sounds nice to me but in execution it would be disastrous and only expound the problem that is already there. Not to mention it is a system that favours the workers over children and elderly...think waiting list to a see a doctor for an appointment doubled in length or so.

From my VA Hospital experience, I can usually make an appointment and get one two to three months down the road BUT they tell me if its an emergency to come into the waiting room and sign up. Never mind the fact that the VA Hospital waiting room puts a regular Hospital's waiting room to shame with the sheer numbers of patients.

Better tactic would be to perform some clean up and legislation with the healthcare agencies and enact some Tort reform to bring medical costs down. Of course, this also depends on getting the economy into shape and whatever moves Congress makes won't really effect the economy until a couple of years down the road after the action is taken.