christ's temptations

dead jim · 03-09-2007, 08:14 AM

here's something puzzling to me. how is it that christ was tempted at all by satan after going into the wilderness after being baptized? the text is explicit that these were "temptations," so we have to view them as such. but what does this mean? why would christ be tempted by anything satan had to offer? i mean, the bible doesn't refer to the everyday sort of things christ must have endured as being temptations, the sort of temptations humans face every day, but those things offered up by satan were temptations. that means that even if christ did face temptation on many fronts (beautiful women offering themselves to him, etc), those things weren't of the same magnitude as the temptations offered up by satan. my thinking is that, if i was the son of God, if "I" was God made flesh, i would never be tempted by satan. even as a mere mortal, i wouldn't be tempted by satan as satan (we have to be clear that these are not some sort of incredibly subtle temptations presented by satan in a different guise). if satan came to me, as i am now, and offered to give me reign over all the world if only i would worship him (the third temptation), it would never even enter my mind to do so. it would be laughable. we have to believe christ knew it was satan as his words following this temptation were, "Begone, Satan! For it is written, 'You shall worship the Lord your God, and serve Him only" (Matthew 4:10). so christ knew who it was. even moreso, no mortal could offer such a thing, so if christ didn't know it was satan, there would still be no reason to be tempted as there would be no reason to believe the individual offering such power could ever deliver it. so, what we're left with is satan offering God the Son power over the world. how is that a genuine temptation? first, christ as God has all the power in the world (literally), and we know this since the first temptation was to make bread for himself. surely anyone who can create bread from nothing can do all sorts of things to earn his own worldly power, so he would never need help from satan. then there's the issue that it's SATAN. why would satan be able to tempt christ to do anything? he couldn't tempt me to do anything since i know the result of falling prey to such (spending eternity in Hell). so why would christ be tempted? lastly, why would satan ever attempt to tempt christ? he would have to know he was doomed to failure. after all, as God, christ was responsible for satan's very existence (as God created everything). of course, this last line of thinking gets us into all sorts of weird issues involving satan (how stupid would he have to be to go up to the being that spoke him into existence and say "i can take you"? dumbdumbdumb), but focusing on the issue at hand, it's still weird.
am i the only one who's never understood this?

EndUnknown · 03-09-2007, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dead jim

here's something puzzling to me. how is it that christ was tempted at all by satan after going into the wilderness after being baptized? the text is explicit that these were "temptations," so we have to view them as such. but what does this mean? why would christ be tempted by anything satan had to offer? i mean, the bible doesn't refer to the everyday sort of things christ must have endured as being temptations, the sort of temptations humans face every day, but those things offered up by satan were temptations. that means that even if christ did face temptation on many fronts (beautiful women offering themselves to him, etc), those things weren't of the same magnitude as the temptations offered up by satan. my thinking is that, if i was the son of God, if "I" was God made flesh, i would never be tempted by satan. even as a mere mortal, i wouldn't be tempted by satan as satan (we have to be clear that these are not some sort of incredibly subtle temptations presented by satan in a different guise). if satan came to me, as i am now, and offered to give me reign over all the world if only i would worship him (the third temptation), it would never even enter my mind to do so. it would be laughable. we have to believe christ knew it was satan as his words following this temptation were, "Begone, Satan! For it is written, 'You shall worship the Lord your God, and serve Him only" (Matthew 4:10). so christ knew who it was. even moreso, no mortal could offer such a thing, so if christ didn't know it was satan, there would still be no reason to be tempted as there would be no reason to believe the individual offering such power could ever deliver it. so, what we're left with is satan offering God the Son power over the world. how is that a genuine temptation? first, christ as God has all the power in the world (literally), and we know this since the first temptation was to make bread for himself. surely anyone who can create bread from nothing can do all sorts of things to earn his own worldly power, so he would never need help from satan. then there's the issue that it's SATAN. why would satan be able to tempt christ to do anything? he couldn't tempt me to do anything since i know the result of falling prey to such (spending eternity in Hell). so why would christ be tempted? lastly, why would satan ever attempt to tempt christ? he would have to know he was doomed to failure. after all, as God, christ was responsible for satan's very existence (as God created everything). of course, this last line of thinking gets us into all sorts of weird issues involving satan (how stupid would he have to be to go up to the being that spoke him into existence and say "i can take you"? dumbdumbdumb), but focusing on the issue at hand, it's still weird.
am i the only one who's never understood this?

Interesting thoughts, but heres mine:

I think Satan's "I can take you" atitude is just an authority issue thing. "Your not the boss" type of thing.

Quote:

he couldn't tempt me to do anything since i know the result of falling prey to such (spending eternity in Hell).

you know the result of lying, or lusting is the same, but you are tempted, and fall to those temptations still do you not?

you would still be tempted by world power, even if it was Satan, unless your worlds beyond everyone else ever to have lived, even the apostles wanted worldly power from the earthly kingdom they expected Jesus to raise(see the verse on the 2 apostles that said "put one of us at your right and the other at your left"

Marshillboy · 03-09-2007, 03:34 PM

If satan obviously tempted people by saying "hey, I'm Satan, let me tempt you", then nobody would sin, right? But Satan takes on very non-obvious guises and slowly creeps in through the cracks. Jesus was tempted by Satan because he is fully human, and was able to resist it because he is fully God. What we humans are are Jesus, minus the fully God part. To think that Jesus never even for one millisecond of his life had a teensy weensy sinful thought is pretty impressive, right

.

Napoleon Iven Quinnly · 03-09-2007, 05:41 PM

Jesus was in the flesh, and was tempted everyday just as you or i would be.However if every time he was tempted it was chronicled the bible would be about 1000 pages longer. Also when satan tempted him he had been in the desert for 40 days and nights.. imagine doing that and then being offered a drink of cold water that would be tempt to even the most devoted christian (notice i didnt say they would give in but they would be tempted), All in all I believe the passage was intended to tell us that yes christ was tempted and that no he never gave into temptation

dead jim · 03-09-2007, 06:16 PM

ok, you guys missed my point. quoting myself, i've come to realize, is obnoxious and condescending, so i'll leave it up to you to re-read my original post to see where i said this the first time.

no, i wouldn't be tempted by satan as satan, and i doubt you would either. if satan came to you and said, just as he said to christ, "All these things will I give you if you fall down and worship me" (Matthew 4:9), you would have to be an idiot to be tempted by that. again, this is a situation where you know it is satan, as explained in my first post, and you know the consequences of giving in. this is not satan in some other guise tempting you in some subtle way. those things make sense. this is something completely different, and in no way is it tempting. the only people who would be tempted by such a thing would be complete fools. and again, we're talking about christ here, and christ could have all the power he wanted as demonstrated by the first temptation which, had he fallen prey, would have been an act of tremendous power. that would show that christ would never need satan's help in attaining worldly power, assuming he would even desire it.
i find it difficult to believe that you guys seriously think that if the devil came to you in the same way that it would ever cross your mind to take him up on his offer. that's just stupid. we want power in order to gain happiness, and no one believes he's going to gain happiness by making deals with the devil. comics and movies aside, that kind of thing is just silly.

and to respond to the idea that satan merely had authority issues with God, that doesn't answer the issue at all. it's not just that God was his boss, it was that God was God. i mean, satan as lucifer was God's favorite. he watched God speak the world into existence. he knew he only existed because God willed it. there was no question of that fact for him. for satan to suppose that he could win a fight with God is the ultimate in stupidity. nothing in the world could be more ridiculous. GOD SPOKE THE WORLD INTO EXISTENCE, AND LUCIFER KNEW IT! how dumb would any being have to be to believe that he, as a created being, would stand any chance against the Being on who's will his existed depended. seriously, come on.

Napoleon Iven Quinnly · 03-09-2007, 06:46 PM

Just goes to show what a big ego satan has. Its kinda like a "I may be going down but im bringing people with me" sort of thing. Satan is more powerful than any human being, however when we become christians satan no longer has power to take us with him. Isnt our God an awsome God?

EndUnknown · 03-09-2007, 08:08 PM

Satan and God is like this:

pretend you have a really tough neighbor, you don't like him, you tried to beat him up that one night at the bar and now your nose is slightly crooked, your only method of getting back at him is kick his dog when you get the chance

^from my preacher

dead jim · 03-10-2007, 06:28 AM

it's funny how the topic has changed, but that's fine.

you guys aren't getting me. sure, satan has a huge ego. you would too if you were God's favorite. but that's not the issue. the issue is this: surely satan is smarter than me. that said, i don't care how jealous i am (let's forget for the moment that jealousy is a sin, and Heaven is a realm of perfection, hence it seems problematic that satan could sin in Heaven. but we won't worry about that for the moment) i am not, under any circumstances, going to try to beat up the Being who willed me into existence. i know without a doubt that i can't win. i mean, this Being willed me into existence; He could just as easily will me out of existence. i only exist as long as He allows me to do so. do you get what i mean now? satan didn't get drunk and fight God in a stupor. he's not a material being, so we can't think about him getting drunk. plus, i doubt that God would allow the spiritual version of vodka in Heaven. that means satan had to decide to take on God knowing full well what would happen. That's the ultimate in stupidity, and we just can't think of satan being that stupid. if he was, he wouldn't be able to fool anyone into sinning.
do you guys get the issue now? forget that satan is more powerful than us, yet, through God's strength, we can overcome him. so what? that's not the issue at all, nor is it surprising in any way. OF COURSE God as the Being who spoke the world into existence can grant us the power to overcome ANYTHING. that's the whole point. HE'S GOD. there is nothing surprising about that, and that's the core of the issue. i repeat, HE'S GOD! would any of you ever think to try to fight Him knowing full well who and what He is? of course not. now,do you think you're smarter than satan? do you really think that God's favorite wouldn't understand that how powerful God is and that any attempt to beat Him up must necessarily end in failure?

Marshillboy · 03-10-2007, 08:23 AM

You're missing the point. Jesus wasn't ALL GOD. He was both fully God AND fully Man. Satan was taking advantage of his time on earth, because this would be his one opportunity to try to tempt God, because after his time on earth, he would no longer be in the sinful flesh. I think the way you're seeing this is like Jesus can automatically just have a temptation-shield and although he's tempted, they just bounce right off of him because he's God. Not quite. Even though Jesus was fully God, remember he is fully Man. And since he was fully man, It took being fully God to bring him to not sinning. Imagine having the weight of the life of the world on your shoulders, and if you sin just one teensy bit and stumble in your walk, the world is doomed. Everybody would die, because nobody's sins would be forgiven. Did you know: If you sinned just 3 times a day (which, of course you and me and everybody probably sin like 3000 times a day), once in the morning, once in the evening, and once in the night: Over your lifetime you would have sinned over 80,000 times. Jesus lived 35 years on earth. His total amount of sins: 0.

dead jim · 03-10-2007, 08:54 AM

to be clear, i was responding primarily to rock4christ, and i took his comment to be about satan challenging God in Heaven, before the Fall, as i made reference to that in my initial post. re-reading it, i still think that's what he was talking about, and that's what my last post was about. that out of the way...

no, i do understand what you're saying, and i'm saying that i, who is not in any way God (and you're wrong about christ not being "all God." you can't partially be God; either you're God or you aren't. you admit as much when you say "He was both fully God AND fully Man.") would have no problem not being tempted by satan offering me power in exchange for falling on my knees and worshiping him, and i think it's safe to assume, since i have sinned and jesus never did, that jesus isn't as easily tempted as i. therefore, since 1) i am more likely to be tempted than christ, and 2) i would not be tempted in this case, it is safe to conclude that jesus should not have been tempted in that case. do you see how the argument goes? now, you can deny the first premise in the argument and say that i too would have been tempted, but i think you would then have to believe that i am an idiot. that would mean that i would have to know that 1) there is a satan, 2) there is God, 3) God created satan, hence God is greater than satan, and 4) worshiping satan would be a sin which would result in my eternal damnation (you can't both worship God and satan), yet i would still be tempted to do so. only a complete fool would see anything the least bit tempting about that situation, and this is assuming we're talking about a mere mortal and not someone who can create bread from nothing, which we know jesus could by way of the first temptation. all that considered, it is really, really, really weird to think that christ would ever have been tempted by satan offering him power.
do you get it now?

EndUnknown · 03-10-2007, 09:08 AM

how do you know you wouldn't be tempted, its easy to say "I'll never do that" when its not in your face. kids say "I'll never smoke" and the first time its offered all that talk goes out the window.

dead jim · 03-10-2007, 09:27 AM

well, i think i can say that because i'm not an idiot, and only an idiot would be tempted by eternal damnation. it's not that satan offered the world (again, remeber this is christ we're talking about, so the rules are actually different, but we'll put that aside for now) and said "don't worry, it will cost you nothing." no, he said "All these things will I give you if you fall down and worship me" (Matthew 4:9). where's the temptation there? there is no doubt that the consequence of this action is doom. your smoking example doesn't work because the kids can't be sure they'll definitely be doomed by smoking. again, let's put aside the fact that this is eternal damnation of my immortal soul and not merely my certain death for the purpose of this argument. let's say that there was a cigarette that killed people instantly every single time. that is, the first drag you took you died. let's also say that there are plenty of people so stupid in the world that they were willing to give up their life so that, after they died, other people would think they were cool. so, here's the scenario: you get offered this cigarette with the promise that, if you smoke it, everyone will think that you're cool. now, you know for sure that you'll die on the first inhale; no one disagrees with that. would you feel the least bit of temptation to smoke that cigarette? i wouldn't, and, if you would, i'd say good riddance. i don't need someone so incredibly stupid taking up space here.
of course, i've never been the least bit tempted to smoke, do any illicit drug, or take even a single drink of alcohol, so what do i know. maybe christ said to himself, "i am the son of God, i am God made flesh, and i know that this is satan, and i know that, if i wanted it, i could have all this power anyway, in fact, i do have it (since i'm God), but man, that satan is so cool, and i would really like to be on my knees in front him, the guy that I, as God, willing into existence. i know i shouldn't, but it sure is tempting." but it seems unlikely.

EndUnknown · 03-10-2007, 10:08 AM

tempted, yes, give in, HECK NO! Id be tempted by coolness (because everybody wants to be cool to someone) no doubt, but i like living, so i wouldn't smoke it.

dead jim · 03-10-2007, 10:39 AM

i really don't know what to say. i genuinely don't understand what is the least bit tempting about that scenario. it seems if you want to be cool that the reason you want to be cool is so that you'll get treated in a certain way, and getting treated that way would bring you some sort of happiness. but, of course, you can't get treated that way if you're dead, so whatever allure there might have been in being cool is entirely defeated. hence, there seems no reason to be tempted as there seems nothing tempting about the situation. if you would be tempted because you want to be cool, i have to say that i don't know why you want to be cool. if that situation is tempting, it can't be that you think that being cool will in some way bring you happiness since it won't, so i don't know what being cool gets you in that you would want it even if you were dead.
seriously, i find it very difficult to believe that you're being completely honest here. i simply find it hard to believe that anyone with enough skill to type a complete sentence would lack the mental acuity to judge that situation as one in which there is no genuine gain, and, without any real gain, there cannot be anything tempting about it. you need to explain to me in detail why such a scenario would be tempting, why you want to be cool if it isn't for the sake of some sort of happiness.

this, of course, is a deviation from the discussion of christ being tempted, but it is my own fault since i believed i could show that no one in their right mind would be tempted by such an offer. perhaps everyone is simply more stupid and irrational than i thought, and they would be tempted even if they knew there was no real gain, but i still maintain that christ was not. and, since it was christ who was supposed to be tempted, that should be the issue. so, at the risk of coming off as obnoxious and condescending, i'll quote from my last post:

Quote:

maybe christ said to himself, "i am the son of God, i am God made flesh, and i know that this is satan, and i know that, if i wanted it, i could have all this power anyway, in fact, i do have it (since i'm God), but man, that satan is so cool, and i would really like to be on my knees in front him, the guy that I, as God, willing into existence. i know i shouldn't, but it sure is tempting." but it seems unlikely.

EndUnknown · 03-10-2007, 01:42 PM

I would want to be cool for the happiness, because being cool brings a feel of acceptance and earthly happiness, so id want the coolness, because of the earthly gain, but I'd realize earthly gain is temporary, and, weighing the odds, choose to decline.

Napoleon Iven Quinnly · 03-10-2007, 04:45 PM

I agree with rock4christ, basically not 100% but basic idea

dead jim · 03-10-2007, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rock4christ

I would want to be cool for the happiness, because being cool b

03-09-2007, 08:14 AM	#1 (permalink)
dead jim Experienced Zuner Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: NOLA Posts: 183 Reputation: 23	christ's temptations here's something puzzling to me. how is it that christ was tempted at all by satan after going into the wilderness after being baptized? the text is explicit that these were "temptations," so we have to view them as such. but what does this mean? why would christ be tempted by anything satan had to offer? i mean, the bible doesn't refer to the everyday sort of things christ must have endured as being temptations, the sort of temptations humans face every day, but those things offered up by satan were temptations. that means that even if christ did face temptation on many fronts (beautiful women offering themselves to him, etc), those things weren't of the same magnitude as the temptations offered up by satan. my thinking is that, if i was the son of God, if "I" was God made flesh, i would never be tempted by satan. even as a mere mortal, i wouldn't be tempted by satan as satan (we have to be clear that these are not some sort of incredibly subtle temptations presented by satan in a different guise). if satan came to me, as i am now, and offered to give me reign over all the world if only i would worship him (the third temptation), it would never even enter my mind to do so. it would be laughable. we have to believe christ knew it was satan as his words following this temptation were, "Begone, Satan! For it is written, 'You shall worship the Lord your God, and serve Him only" (Matthew 4:10). so christ knew who it was. even moreso, no mortal could offer such a thing, so if christ didn't know it was satan, there would still be no reason to be tempted as there would be no reason to believe the individual offering such power could ever deliver it. so, what we're left with is satan offering God the Son power over the world. how is that a genuine temptation? first, christ as God has all the power in the world (literally), and we know this since the first temptation was to make bread for himself. surely anyone who can create bread from nothing can do all sorts of things to earn his own worldly power, so he would never need help from satan. then there's the issue that it's SATAN. why would satan be able to tempt christ to do anything? he couldn't tempt me to do anything since i know the result of falling prey to such (spending eternity in Hell). so why would christ be tempted? lastly, why would satan ever attempt to tempt christ? he would have to know he was doomed to failure. after all, as God, christ was responsible for satan's very existence (as God created everything). of course, this last line of thinking gets us into all sorts of weird issues involving satan (how stupid would he have to be to go up to the being that spoke him into existence and say "i can take you"? dumbdumbdumb), but focusing on the issue at hand, it's still weird. am i the only one who's never understood this? __________________ "nitimur in vetitum" To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

03-09-2007, 05:41 PM	#4 (permalink)
Napoleon Iven Quinnly zB Programmer Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 630 Reputation: 20	Jesus was in the flesh, and was tempted everyday just as you or i would be.However if every time he was tempted it was chronicled the bible would be about 1000 pages longer. Also when satan tempted him he had been in the desert for 40 days and nights.. imagine doing that and then being offered a drink of cold water that would be tempt to even the most devoted christian (notice i didnt say they would give in but they would be tempted), All in all I believe the passage was intended to tell us that yes christ was tempted and that no he never gave into temptation __________________ With all due respect, Napoleon IQ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

03-09-2007, 06:16 PM	#5 (permalink)
dead jim Experienced Zuner Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: NOLA Posts: 183 Reputation: 23	ok, you guys missed my point. quoting myself, i've come to realize, is obnoxious and condescending, so i'll leave it up to you to re-read my original post to see where i said this the first time. no, i wouldn't be tempted by satan as satan, and i doubt you would either. if satan came to you and said, just as he said to christ, "All these things will I give you if you fall down and worship me" (Matthew 4:9), you would have to be an idiot to be tempted by that. again, this is a situation where you know it is satan, as explained in my first post, and you know the consequences of giving in. this is not satan in some other guise tempting you in some subtle way. those things make sense. this is something completely different, and in no way is it tempting. the only people who would be tempted by such a thing would be complete fools. and again, we're talking about christ here, and christ could have all the power he wanted as demonstrated by the first temptation which, had he fallen prey, would have been an act of tremendous power. that would show that christ would never need satan's help in attaining worldly power, assuming he would even desire it. i find it difficult to believe that you guys seriously think that if the devil came to you in the same way that it would ever cross your mind to take him up on his offer. that's just stupid. we want power in order to gain happiness, and no one believes he's going to gain happiness by making deals with the devil. comics and movies aside, that kind of thing is just silly. and to respond to the idea that satan merely had authority issues with God, that doesn't answer the issue at all. it's not just that God was his boss, it was that God was God. i mean, satan as lucifer was God's favorite. he watched God speak the world into existence. he knew he only existed because God willed it. there was no question of that fact for him. for satan to suppose that he could win a fight with God is the ultimate in stupidity. nothing in the world could be more ridiculous. GOD SPOKE THE WORLD INTO EXISTENCE, AND LUCIFER KNEW IT! how dumb would any being have to be to believe that he, as a created being, would stand any chance against the Being on who's will his existed depended. seriously, come on. __________________ "nitimur in vetitum" To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

03-09-2007, 06:46 PM	#6 (permalink)
Napoleon Iven Quinnly zB Programmer Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 630 Reputation: 20	Just goes to show what a big ego satan has. Its kinda like a "I may be going down but im bringing people with me" sort of thing. Satan is more powerful than any human being, however when we become christians satan no longer has power to take us with him. Isnt our God an awsome God? __________________ With all due respect, Napoleon IQ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

03-10-2007, 06:28 AM	#8 (permalink)
dead jim Experienced Zuner Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: NOLA Posts: 183 Reputation: 23	Re: christ's temptations it's funny how the topic has changed, but that's fine. you guys aren't getting me. sure, satan has a huge ego. you would too if you were God's favorite. but that's not the issue. the issue is this: surely satan is smarter than me. that said, i don't care how jealous i am (let's forget for the moment that jealousy is a sin, and Heaven is a realm of perfection, hence it seems problematic that satan could sin in Heaven. but we won't worry about that for the moment) i am not, under any circumstances, going to try to beat up the Being who willed me into existence. i know without a doubt that i can't win. i mean, this Being willed me into existence; He could just as easily will me out of existence. i only exist as long as He allows me to do so. do you get what i mean now? satan didn't get drunk and fight God in a stupor. he's not a material being, so we can't think about him getting drunk. plus, i doubt that God would allow the spiritual version of vodka in Heaven. that means satan had to decide to take on God knowing full well what would happen. That's the ultimate in stupidity, and we just can't think of satan being that stupid. if he was, he wouldn't be able to fool anyone into sinning. do you guys get the issue now? forget that satan is more powerful than us, yet, through God's strength, we can overcome him. so what? that's not the issue at all, nor is it surprising in any way. OF COURSE God as the Being who spoke the world into existence can grant us the power to overcome ANYTHING. that's the whole point. HE'S GOD. there is nothing surprising about that, and that's the core of the issue. i repeat, HE'S GOD! would any of you ever think to try to fight Him knowing full well who and what He is? of course not. now,do you think you're smarter than satan? do you really think that God's favorite wouldn't understand that how powerful God is and that any attempt to beat Him up must necessarily end in failure? __________________ "nitimur in vetitum" To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

03-10-2007, 08:54 AM	#10 (permalink)
dead jim Experienced Zuner Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: NOLA Posts: 183 Reputation: 23	to be clear, i was responding primarily to rock4christ, and i took his comment to be about satan challenging God in Heaven, before the Fall, as i made reference to that in my initial post. re-reading it, i still think that's what he was talking about, and that's what my last post was about. that out of the way... no, i do understand what you're saying, and i'm saying that i, who is not in any way God (and you're wrong about christ not being "all God." you can't partially be God; either you're God or you aren't. you admit as much when you say "He was both fully God AND fully Man.") would have no problem not being tempted by satan offering me power in exchange for falling on my knees and worshiping him, and i think it's safe to assume, since i have sinned and jesus never did, that jesus isn't as easily tempted as i. therefore, since 1) i am more likely to be tempted than christ, and 2) i would not be tempted in this case, it is safe to conclude that jesus should not have been tempted in that case. do you see how the argument goes? now, you can deny the first premise in the argument and say that i too would have been tempted, but i think you would then have to believe that i am an idiot. that would mean that i would have to know that 1) there is a satan, 2) there is God, 3) God created satan, hence God is greater than satan, and 4) worshiping satan would be a sin which would result in my eternal damnation (you can't both worship God and satan), yet i would still be tempted to do so. only a complete fool would see anything the least bit tempting about that situation, and this is assuming we're talking about a mere mortal and not someone who can create bread from nothing, which we know jesus could by way of the first temptation. all that considered, it is really, really, really weird to think that christ would ever have been tempted by satan offering him power. do you get it now? __________________ "nitimur in vetitum" To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Last edited by dead jim : 03-10-2007 at 08:57 AM.

03-10-2007, 09:27 AM	#12 (permalink)
dead jim Experienced Zuner Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: NOLA Posts: 183 Reputation: 23	well, i think i can say that because i'm not an idiot, and only an idiot would be tempted by eternal damnation. it's not that satan offered the world (again, remeber this is christ we're talking about, so the rules are actually different, but we'll put that aside for now) and said "don't worry, it will cost you nothing." no, he said "All these things will I give you if you fall down and worship me" (Matthew 4:9). where's the temptation there? there is no doubt that the consequence of this action is doom. your smoking example doesn't work because the kids can't be sure they'll definitely be doomed by smoking. again, let's put aside the fact that this is eternal damnation of my immortal soul and not merely my certain death for the purpose of this argument. let's say that there was a cigarette that killed people instantly every single time. that is, the first drag you took you died. let's also say that there are plenty of people so stupid in the world that they were willing to give up their life so that, after they died, other people would think they were cool. so, here's the scenario: you get offered this cigarette with the promise that, if you smoke it, everyone will think that you're cool. now, you know for sure that you'll die on the first inhale; no one disagrees with that. would you feel the least bit of temptation to smoke that cigarette? i wouldn't, and, if you would, i'd say good riddance. i don't need someone so incredibly stupid taking up space here. of course, i've never been the least bit tempted to smoke, do any illicit drug, or take even a single drink of alcohol, so what do i know. maybe christ said to himself, "i am the son of God, i am God made flesh, and i know that this is satan, and i know that, if i wanted it, i could have all this power anyway, in fact, i do have it (since i'm God), but man, that satan is so cool, and i would really like to be on my knees in front him, the guy that I, as God, willing into existence. i know i shouldn't, but it sure is tempting." but it seems unlikely. __________________ "nitimur in vetitum" To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

03-10-2007, 04:45 PM	#16 (permalink)
Napoleon Iven Quinnly zB Programmer Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 630 Reputation: 20	I agree with rock4christ, basically not 100% but basic idea __________________ With all due respect, Napoleon IQ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

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