Zeitgeist

[djsnowflake410]

Idk if anyone here has ever seen the movie Zeigeist. It's an indie Documentary but it is very good. Most of the movie deals with 9/11 and how ****ed up the government is but the first half hour or so is about religion. It really changed my views about religion it's very interesting.

Zeitgeist - The Movie

you can watch it online here or you can find it on basically any torrent site

[Netrix]

I saw it. The part about religion was quite interesting. It confirmed my beliefs about religion and made me realize that population of the United States is not actually in control of the United States. Thank you for spreading the best "awareness" movie that I have yet to see.

Sadly, many people will discard the movie as a 'conspiracy theory' and thus not take heed of its information.

[djsnowflake410]

yeah its sad that people will just write it off like that but I think slowly more and more ppl will start to accept it.

[Locke]

The moment I saw "indie," "9/11," and "government" together, it was pretty much cemented in my mind that this would not say anything that hasn't been done to death and proven wrong a hundred different ways.

[Netrix]

Originally Posted by Locke

The moment I saw "indie," "9/11," and "government" together, it was pretty much cemented in my mind that this would not say anything that hasn't been done to death and proven wrong a hundred different ways.

There is no wonder why. You obviously did not even bother looking at it. The U.S. population as a whole is not willing to open their eyes. They are content living their lives as they are. Why would they want to learn about bad things that would derail their bliss? They choose ignorance.

Can you point me to some "proof" that it is all wrong? I do not mean about 9/11, either. Even if the government had absolutely nothing to do with 9/11, that does not discredit everything else.

[Locke]

I just said I didn't bother looking at it. The description given by djsnowflake410 did not make it seem as if there was anything worth wasting my time on. Your remarks haven't either. Tell me why I ought to watch this. What am I ignorant of? And for that matter, what bliss am I having?

Well, the way I see it, the burden of proof is on your side, not mine. I have not seen a single shred of evidence for such claims that cannot be shot down. Believe it or not, Bush is not a dictator or a God, he can't know everything at once, and he can't do whatever he wants. He can't even exercise his Constitutional authority because people jump on him before he can get anything useful done.

[djsnowflake410]

Originally Posted by Locke

I just said I didn't bother looking at it. The description given by djsnowflake410 did not make it seem as if there was anything worth wasting my time on. Your remarks haven't either. Tell me why I ought to watch this. What am I ignorant of? And for that matter, what bliss am I having?

Well, the way I see it, the burden of proof is on your side, not mine. I have not seen a single shred of evidence for such claims that cannot be shot down. Believe it or not, Bush is not a dictator or a God, he can't know everything at once, and he can't do whatever he wants. He can't even exercise his Constitutional authority because people jump on him before he can get anything useful done.

I know bush isn't a dictator or a god cuz he doesn't have **** to do with it hes just a puppet controlled by the men behind the curtain. The men who run this country, the banks. They want money and guess what there getting it. Watch the video you would learn some ****. and I hope your telling me that you haven't seen a shred of eveidence about 9/11 being a false flag operation, an inside job, because if you are I can give you plenty of hard evidence that I would love to see you dispute for example out of the 19 hijackers on the FBI's list 6 of them have come out since 9/11 and said "I'm alive" and there living over in the middle east or w/e some never even have come to america. You want me let me know you want even have to watch the section of the movie I will list for you every fact. Maybe you are just one of those ppl though like most americans that even with the evidence right in front of your face you cannot except the truth cuz you don't want to or because your afraid.

[Locke]

Are you, by any chance, a descendant of Andrew Jackson? ^_^; I haven't seen such ridicoulous claims since his time in office. Also, how trustworthy is this "evidence?" If it runs contrary to established facts such as this, it had better come from someplace good. Also, even if this is true, is it not entirely possible that the FBI could have made a mistake? It happens. It doesn't make a conspiracy.

Afraid? I think you are mistaken; it is not I who is afraid. Are you afraid to deal with the realities of life? Will you swallow whatever theories make seem "nonconformist?"

[Netrix]

Originally Posted by Locke

I just said I didn't bother looking at it. The description given by djsnowflake410 did not make it seem as if there was anything worth wasting my time on. Your remarks haven't either. Tell me why I ought to watch this. What am I ignorant of? And for that matter, what bliss am I having?

Well, the way I see it, the burden of proof is on your side, not mine. I have not seen a single shred of evidence for such claims that cannot be shot down. Believe it or not, Bush is not a dictator or a God, he can't know everything at once, and he can't do whatever he wants. He can't even exercise his Constitutional authority because people jump on him before he can get anything useful done.

Why should I have to show any proof? It is all over the Internet. A simple Google search will give you many sites where you can find the information. However, it is hard to find any of your alleged debunking. You are the one that says it it all can be shot down. So tell me how it all can be shot down, otherwise do not say it all can be shot down.

You have not seen a single shred of evidence? Did I read that correctly? You refused to look at the evidence.

Since you have not seen the movie, you really can not claim anything about it. Stop saying that it has all been proven wrong until you actually know about which you are talking. You have shown ignorance by discarding the movie just because of three words.

I really do not care about George Bush. Forget about Bush. This has very little to do with him.

This is fairly interesting: http://www.the7thfire.com/Politics%2...adden-Fed.html

After that speech, there are two attempts on his life. The third is a success.

[Locke]

So, you would rather trust the internet over an instituion designed to protect us, i.e. the government? There is nothing saying that anything your sources are saying have to be true. However, the government is held responsible for every mistep and mistake, be they imagined or not. The fact that you consider a Goodgle search definitive proof of a conspiracy is ludicrous. Who cares if the evidence presented by the government does not appear on a Google search? Has it ever occured to you that Google results will only turn up things actually on the internet, and only things that have the most visits? Of course these ridiculous fantasies will be propagated via internet.

I refused to look at this movie. That doesn't mean I haven't heard "evidence" of such claims before. By the way, previous claims were chock full of bull too.

First off, those three words describe something that, yes, is patently wrong and been done a hundred times. Your precious Google obviously reveals that. What about what djsnowflake410 said? If that has anything to do with the movie, and I'll assume it does, then it quite clearly is also a fallacy.

Well, this is one new element, I must admit: I have yet to see one of these claims that doesn't attack Bush in some way. Is that just your opinion, or does the movie honestly not even mention Bush?

Allow me to present to you the Pastafarian argument: "Statistically significant correlations do not imply a causal relationship." So, three attempts, one successful, were made on his life after this speech. So? After Lincoln made his Inaugural Speech, he was killed. Does that mean that his death was a direct result of the speech? No. People had their own reasons to want him dead, irregardless of the speech he made. And a few observations: 1934? What possible relation could that have to the current state of American politics. Secondly, if this guy considers Andrew Jackson his hero, I'm not very inclined to believe a word he says. The only thing that Jackson did for the presidency was to set a precedent of the full use of Presidential power. How he used that power, however, was a disaster. He caused a recession almost singledhandedly, was the man behind "the Trail of Tears," and was a major proponent of the spoils system, which long held our country in the grasp of corruption and greed.

[Netrix]

You ask for proof, then imply that the Internet can not be trusted as "proof". Wonderful. I doubt you would read it, but "Free to Choose" by Milton Friedman describes how the FED misused their powers during the Great Depression and how the American population is being striped of their personal freedoms. Milton Friedman won Nobel Memorial Prize in Economics in 1976 and is considered one of the greatest economists of the 20th century. Surely he has some credibility.

Originally Posted by Locke

And a few observations: 1934? What possible relation could that have to the current state of American politics.

That was the most ignorant thing that you have said thus far. Way back in 1934, that Congressman realized what the FED was not doing what it was supposed to be doing, and told everyone about it. Then there were attempts to assassinate him. It really is not that common for a Congressman to be assassinated.

No one listened to what he said, so nothing was done about it. Just like no one is listening now, so nothing will be done about it.

As for Bush, he is mentioned in the movie, but he is not the star of it, as you seem to think. That is a very small part of the big picture.

He caused a recession almost singledhandedly, was the man behind "the Trail of Tears," and was a major proponent of the spoils system, which long held our country in the grasp of corruption and greed.

Uh... The FED caused the Great Depression, yet you do not seem to care about that. The country always has had corruption and greed. You can not blame a single person for it being there.

I do not see any point in teaching you the basics of the history of American politics and economy. The American school system should be teaching you that kind of stuff, but instead they teach you what they want you to think. It appears to have worked. As a Canadian, I have not been brainwashed to think that the American government is so great since I was born. I moved to South Carolina when I was 10, and I noticed the brainwashing that happens in American schools. It is ridiculous that you accept whatever the government says, simply because the government is designed to protect us. It is more like you are designed to accept whatever the government says.

It is useless arguing with you, because you try to find any way to discredit everything that goes against what you have been taught. My suggestions are: Watch the movie; Do some research; Or stop being the government's pawn. Otherwise I will stop wasting my time on this thread.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Netrix

You ask for proof, then imply that the Internet can not be trusted as "proof". Wonderful. I doubt you would read it, but "Free to Choose" by Milton Friedman describes how the FED misused their powers during the Great Depression and how the American population is being striped of their personal freedoms. Milton Friedman won Nobel Memorial Prize in Economics in 1976 and is considered one of the greatest economists of the 20th century. Surely he has some credibility.

That was the most ignorant thing that you have said thus far. Way back in 1934, that Congressman realized what the FED was not doing what it was supposed to be doing, and told everyone about it. Then there were attempts to assassinate him. It really is not that common for a Congressman to be assassinated.

No one listened to what he said, so nothing was done about it. Just like no one is listening now, so nothing will be done about it.

As for Bush, he is mentioned in the movie, but he is not the star of it, as you seem to think. That is a very small part of the big picture.


Uh... The FED caused the Great Depression, yet you do not seem to care about that. The country always has had corruption and greed. You can not blame a single person for it being there.

I do not see any point in teaching you the basics of the history of American politics and economy. The American school system should be teaching you that kind of stuff, but instead they teach you what they want you to think. It appears to have worked. As a Canadian, I have not been brainwashed to think that the American government is so great since I was born. I moved to South Carolina when I was 10, and I noticed the brainwashing that happens in American schools. It is ridiculous that you accept whatever the government says, simply because the government is designed to protect us. It is more like you are designed to accept whatever the government says.

It is useless arguing with you, because you try to find any way to discredit everything that goes against what you have been taught. My suggestions are: Watch the movie; Do some research; Or stop being the government's pawn. Otherwise I will stop wasting my time on this thread.

Apparently you didn't read correctly. I said that Google ought not be used as definitive proof in such a serious accusation. Unless one of the results is from a reputable source, one that can back up their claims with solid evidence they didn't invent or imagine, then I'll give it a chance. Till then, no.

Credibility and proof would be nice. What proof did he offer? Reputable people can still be wrong.

So, you're saying that the government has been secretly controlling us since before the Depression or even earlier? If you feel that threatened by some imagined meanace, move. It can't be that serious a threat otherwise. If the government is going to end up like some Orwellian nightmare, you'd be a fool not to move.

Did I say he was the star? No. I said I find it hard to believe that any movie such as this makes no mention of him in a deragtory manner. Read this again:

Well, this is one new element, I must admit: I have yet to see one of these claims that doesn't attack Bush in some way. Is that just your opinion, or does the movie honestly not even mention Bush?

Even if he is not the star, could the honestly have left him alone?

........I'm.....absolutely speechless....what garbage have you been taught?! The Great Depression was caused by the excessive "prospecting" in stock and real estate and accentuated by politians more worried about face than results. When the market crashed, and it was doomed to, the way people were treating credit, people went into a panic. They started withdrawing money from banks, causing more banks and more markets to close down. Herbert Hoover saw the problem, and tried to push a bill that would freeze the banks. However, his inability to solve the problem quickly caused him to loose both support from the public and from Congress. FDR, on the other hand, was immensly popular and would take office shortly. Hoover appealed to him for help in Congress to garner support for his bill. No one wanted to support it because they were afraid it was an over-reaction. FDR didn't want his name to be tarnished by association with Hoover's failure to calm the market down. So, FDR didn't push it, and no one else wanted to either. Right one schedule, the banks failed, and as soon as FDR took office, he quickly passed his own bill to freeze the banks. It was, however, too late. The damage was done. He proceeded to throw money at the problem, which relieved the symptoms, but failed to fix the issue; he tried to pull the money back, but the country only slipped deeper into depression. FDR remained popular because he made the quick fix. He also made sure to hold onto his power, one of the more well known scandals being the court packing plan, a Constitutional stretch far more serious than Bush, Kennedy, and Truman combined. If he had succeeded, and remained popular, he really could have made a dictatorship in function if not in name. The only solution to this problem was from the outside, by the income from sending supplies to the warring countries in Europe and reaping the profits, and eventually, a unified nation in full industrial production focused on the war. That's what ended the Great Depression.

Oh, one note: I have never been to a public school in my entire life. I'm not going to a public college either. So, how could the government brainwash me when I'm not in their reach? Don't assume things you can't possibly know. Also, second fun fact: I'm a Canadian. I wasn't born there, but both of my parents were, and both are still solely Canadian citizens. They moved to California when my mom was pregnant with me. They were new there, and so we didn't have any established roots for many years. As a result, I was never steeped deeply in American culture, not in the least. And I wasn't even allowed to watch any TV outside of PBS until I was about 11. We didn't have internet until I was 13. I had little contact with much of America until we moved from California when I was 14. So, how did I get so desperately brainwashed that I can't listen to a single word you've said?

Ooh, almost missed you comment on Jackson. Did I say that Jackson was the cause for all corruption and greed? No. Really, this is getting annoying. You are either not reading my posts, hearing what you want to hear, or are purposely twisting my words. Anyway, I said that the spoils system was inherently corrupt and greedy. The spoils system was essentially where a president would only appoint people who agreed with him, and would frequently remove anyone from the previous administration's appointees who did not agree with them. This soon filtered down to lesser governments, to the state and even town level at times. It took several reformer presidents around the turn of the last century to put an end to the widespread corruption brought about by the spoils system.

You really are more paranoid than Mason, Jefferson, Madison, and Henry all put together; all of these were members of the anti-Federalist movement, by the way. We should be wary of the government, but we can't assume that each and every word to come from the administration to be aboslute lies. It just can't happen like that. No government can be that corrupt, unless it is a totalitarian dictatorship in both function and name. The American government is neither. There is no indication that it will be. All of this "proof" is all the same, it is all lies, and for the most part, is all purported by the same kind of person. While I've never had the pleasure of meeting these kinds of people face-to-face, I have heard plenty of impotent whining. More than a single person should have to endure. It's tiresome and ridiculous.

Again, stop assuming; you're not very good at it. I've mentioned several times I've heard these claims before. Now, tell me, how could I have possibly done that if I hadn't, oh, I dunno, done some research, perhaps? And I don't go out of my way to discredit what I've been taught, because much of my knowledge about history, government, and the like, has been self-taught. I will, however, do everything in my power to stamp out any claim that goes against what I know and believe. I know that these claims don't hold any water. I believe that our system of government still works. If there is anything to fear from our government, it should be stupidity, not conspiracy.

[Netrix]

Originally Posted by Locke

Apparently you didn't read correctly. I said that Google ought not be used as definitive proof in such a serious accusation. Unless one of the results is from a reputable source, one that can back up their claims with solid evidence they didn't invent or imagine, then I'll give it a chance. Till then, no.

The look harder. It is there. You are purposefully ignoring it. I will not do it for you. It is not my job to do that.

Credibility and proof would be nice. What proof did he offer? Reputable people can still be wrong.

Read the book and find out. I will not read the book to you. It does not work like that. Do the research and stop asking for evidence and proof. Even if you read the book, you will still try to find some way to say that Milton Friedman is wrong, even though you know nothing about economics compared to him.

So, you're saying that the government has been secretly controlling us since before the Depression or even earlier? If you feel that threatened by some imagined meanace, move. It can't be that serious a threat otherwise. If the government is going to end up like some Orwellian nightmare, you'd be a fool not to move.

No, not before the Depression. The Depression is when it started. Also, I did move. I am in Canada right now.

Did I say he was the star? No. I said I find it hard to believe that any movie such as this makes no mention of him in a deragtory manner.

Even if he is not the star, could the honestly have left him alone?

No. Did I say that you did? No. I said that you seem to think that. Why would they leave holes in the truth?

........I'm.....absolutely speechless....what garbage have you been taught?! The Great Depression was caused by the excessive "prospecting" in stock and real estate and accentuated by politians more worried about face than results. When the market crashed, and it was doomed to, the way people were treating credit, people went into a panic.

"Speculation" is a better word for that.

More basics of economics... A stock market crash does not equal a depression. If the FED did what they were supposed to do, a recession would have happened, instead of a depression. Recessions are doomed to happen. It is a part of the business cycle. The FED reduced the money supply during the years before the Depression. During the start of the Depression and during it, they did not do anything to lessen the effects of the Depression. Do not ask for proof of this. Read "Free to Choose".

Oh, one note: I have never been to a public school in my entire life. I'm not going to a public college either. So, how could the government brainwash me when I'm not in their reach? Don't assume things you can't possibly know. Also, second fun fact: I'm a Canadian. I wasn't born there, but both of my parents were, and both are still solely Canadian citizens. They moved to California when my mom was pregnant with me. They were new there, and so we didn't have any established roots for many years. As a result, I was never steeped deeply in American culture, not in the least. And I wasn't even allowed to watch any TV outside of PBS until I was about 11. We didn't have internet until I was 13. I had little contact with much of America until we moved from California when I was 14. So, how did I get so desperately brainwashed that I can't listen to a single word you've said?

Obviously there will be people that have special circumstances. I merely chose the most likely possibility. It is perfectly okay for someone to be incorrect about one detail in a lengthy debate. I do not read minds.

It took several reformer presidents around the turn of the last century to put an end to the widespread corruption brought about by the spoils system.

Really. So there is very little corruption in the government now?

You really are more paranoid than Mason, Jefferson, Madison, and Henry all put together; all of these were members of the anti-Federalist movement, by the way. We should be wary of the government, but we can't assume that each and every wo