q for any mormon

[gpdude]

why do you guys constantly come to our doors? I mean I am a firm beliver in crist and I am a christan I dont what any people comeing to my house and try to pusha false teaching on me. does't say in revalation that no one add or subtract from the bible on the day of jugement they sall be juged harder than anyone?

[monahan]

Originally Posted by gpdude

why do you guys constantly come to our doors? I mean I am a firm beliver in crist and I am a christan I dont what any people comeing to my house and try to pusha false teaching on me. does't say in revalation that no one add or subtract from the bible on the day of jugement they sall be juged harder than anyone?

I'm sorry, who are you to say their teachings are false? From where I'm currently sitting, you're the one practicing intolerance to your brothers, which I'm fairly sure is pretty much contrary to what some crazy dude called jesus christ wanted.

In answer to your question, they go from door to door because they're practicing their beliefs to the word; they're celebrating their faith and singing about it - I've never met a mormon...a real mormon with a malicious bone in their body, I've even met some, when I was at a really crappy point in my life, who took me in, clothed me, gave me a meal and helped me feel safe enough to just talk without any questions of religion or politics. What I have met though, are a bunch of pissed off, fundamentalist "christian" gun lobbyists who persist in a message of hatred and terrorism, and that perpetuate a holy war against the nations of islam because a right wing, neo conservative president tells them it's the right thing to do.

What I have met, is an ever so kind "christian" woman from the salvation army, who refused to help me find my biological father, on the basis that the salvation army "does not help bastards". Funny though. Never heard any of that from a mormon.

I suggest, child, you go away and read he bible you like to think you cherish so much and practice the message of love that Jesus tried to teach all those years ago, then come back.

[Darth Camel]

Originally Posted by monahan

I'm sorry, who are you to say their teachings are false? From where I'm currently sitting, you're the one practicing intolerance to your brothers, which I'm fairly sure is pretty much contrary to what some crazy dude called jesus christ wanted.

In answer to your question, they go from door to door because they're practicing their beliefs to the word; they're celebrating their faith and singing about it - I've never met a mormon...a real mormon with a malicious bone in their body, I've even met some, when I was at a really crappy point in my life, who took me in, clothed me, gave me a meal and helped me feel safe enough to just talk without any questions of religion or politics. What I have met though, are a bunch of pissed off, fundamentalist "christian" gun lobbyists who persist in a message of hatred and terrorism, and that perpetuate a holy war against the nations of islam because a right wing, neo conservative president tells them it's the right thing to do.

What I have met, is an ever so kind "christian" woman from the salvation army, who refused to help me find my biological father, on the basis that the salvation army "does not help bastards". Funny though. Never heard any of that from a mormon.

I suggest, child, you go away and read he bible you like to think you cherish so much and practice the message of love that Jesus tried to teach all those years ago, then come back.

Whoa! Calm down! Is the OP a little bit ignorant? Sure. You are too, considering the unprovoked hostility and sweeping generalizations you're making. But it's not like he insulted you or something.

[Netrix]

Great post, Monahan. Plus reputation for you.

Originally Posted by Darth Camel

Whoa! Calm down! Is the OP a little bit ignorant? Sure. You are too, considering the unprovoked hostility and sweeping generalizations you're making. But it's not like he insulted you or something.

I know when something is ignorant, and Monahan's post was not ignorant. I did not see hostility in his post. He questioned the first post, stated an observation, and answered the question. Then, he described experiences and observations that he has had in the past. He did not make "sweeping" generalizations. He simply said what he saw. At the end, he gave a suggestion that I think is quite appropriate.

[monahan]

Originally Posted by Darth Camel

Whoa! Calm down! Is the OP a little bit ignorant? Sure. You are too, considering the unprovoked hostility and sweeping generalizations you're making. But it's not like he insulted you or something.

Where are the sweeping generalisations? I'm basing my commentary upon observation and personal experiences, and the fact any time I've faced any trouble on religious grounds (being a non christian, I get told I'm going to burn to hell surprisingly frequently), it's been from a member of the christian quarter; I have jewish, muslim, mormon, satanist, buddhist and even mennonite and amish friends, but none of them...None of them show the amount of disrespect and intolerance to my core religious and spiritual beliefs that, for example, evangelist and catholic followers do.

As for your observation that I wasn't "calm" when making the comment, I invite you to go back and read the entire entry again; sure, it annoys me when someone like the OP does make an intolerant comment, but I don't let it affect me to nearly the degree you seem to think it does.

[Netrix]

Originally Posted by monahan

As for your observation that I wasn't "calm" when making the comment, I invite you to go back and read the entire entry again; sure, it annoys me when someone like the OP does make an intolerant comment, but I don't let it affect me to nearly the degree you seem to think it does.

I have noticed over and over again that people tend to assume that long posts are "rants", and that a person posting such is hostile. It is vexes me greatly when they respond to my posts with said assumptions.

Back to the topic... I also have not been hassled by anyone that is religious except for some that are Christian. I have been visited by Jehovah's Witnesses a couple times, but they were very polite and non-intrusive.

[monahan]

Originally Posted by Netrix

I have noticed over and over again that people tend to assume that long posts are "rants", and that a person posting such is hostile. It is vexes me greatly when they respond to my posts with said assumptions.

I think it's a trend these days that people are constantly on the defensive, because they assume others are on the offensive. Well. The small minded and weak, at least; I've found that those with a greater capacity for understanding tend to be more open.

[Darth Camel]

Originally Posted by Netrix

I have noticed over and over again that people tend to assume that long posts are "rants", and that a person posting such is hostile. It is vexes me greatly when they respond to my posts with said assumptions.

Nope, I did not read the post as being hostile because of the length. In fact, I wouldn't even say that was a long post at all. A bit longer than the two or three word posts some newer members have been making but not long at all. My longest post on zB is at least 3 times as long as that. It vexes me greatly when you respond to my post with said assumption. I thought the post was hostile because monahan disproportionally responded to the OP, who, while exhibiting ignorance, was not really being insulting (at least not intentionally, such is a side-effect of ignorance). Plus, monahan used purely anecdotal evidence which carries little weight when trying to argue a point. A more collected person would use better arguments, I hope. Again, monahan's behavior is better explained as someone who is bitter against religious Christians due to his own personal experience.

Originally Posted by monahan

perpetuate a holy war against the nations of islam because a right wing, neo conservative president tells them it's the right thing to do.

Sounds like a generalization to me, at least to a certain degree. And, like I said, anecdotal evidence is quite weak, although as someone who has renounced my Catholic faith due to the points you've made, I'm sorry about your bad experiences. Not all Christians are bad, although I got sick and tired of the intolerance and ignorance that runs rampant though the Catholic Church.

Originally Posted by monahan

I suggest, child, you go away and read he bible you like to think you cherish so much and practice the message of love that Jesus tried to teach all those years ago, then come back.

This part here is you clearly being contemptuous, which would imply at least some hostility. I invite you to go back and read your post again. Sure, it annoys me when someone like you responds to intolerance with more intolerance, but you're right. You don't let it affect you as much as you think. You let it affect you more.

[monahan]

Originally Posted by Darth Camel

I thought the post was hostile because monahan disproportionally responded to the OP, who, while exhibiting ignorance, was not really being insulting (at least not intentionally, such is a side-effect of ignorance).

Well really, he was - Have you considered that there may be mormon members on your board, or does your ego only allow you to consider the possibility that everyone believes the same things as you?

Plus, monahan used purely anecdotal evidence which carries little weight when trying to argue a point. A more collected person would use better arguments, I hope.

Nice shrouded insult. well done indeed sir, but I assure you, I'm no plebian. Asside from this, If I can't base an argument on personal insight and knowledge gained through that interaction, what can I base it on? Should I IM you every time, in order to request a series of authorised responses? You're clearly insinuating that I'm not allowed a viewpoint based upon personal experience, so what, pray tell, is the alternative?

Again, monahan's behavior is better explained as someone who is bitter against religious Christians due to his own personal experience.

Pretty much every war in history has religious intolerance at its root - who wouldn't be bitter?

Sounds like a generalization to me, at least to a certain degree.

No, a sweeping generalisation would be: "[b]all[/i] christians are unenlightened, hamfisted, closed minded thugs with little to no regard to other beliefs or the fundamental philosophies of their own, in favour of enforcing an organised religion that produces nothing but negativity and disharmony in the world."

And, like I said, anecdotal evidence is quite weak, although as someone who has renounced my Catholic faith due to the points you've made, I'm sorry about your bad experiences.

I'm sorry, did you just say that you've renounced catholicism because of me? I think perhaps you should look into developing a stronger mind and a fundamental idea of where your theological beliefs belong - you should never, under any circumstances renounce based purely upon the experiences of another person, merely your own.

Not all Christians are bad, although I got sick and tired of the intolerance and ignorance that runs rampant though the Catholic Church.

But it isn't just catholicism is it? I'm fairly sure God never wanted evangelists to go on TV collecting money, only to spend said money on this year's aston martin.

This part here is you clearly being contemptuous, which would imply at least some hostility. I invite you to go back and read your post again. Sure, it annoys me when someone like you responds to intolerance with more intolerance, but you're right. You don't let it affect you as much as you think. You let it affect you more.

Not at all. I dedicated a modicum of my attention span to that particular response, just as I am now; I don't let it affect me that much, simply because I don't expect people to follow my words, learn from my insight or particularly stand up and take notice. As you've proven, people are far too self involved in what they think is important to actually take notice of anybody else.

No.

Rather, I invited him as a child (as the statement he made was, in fact, rather childish) to go away and read the bible. To actually absorb and understand the words for the beauty they represent, and understand, because as any scholarly mind knows, understanding is the key to all wisdom. The fact that he clearly had no interest in what mormons had to say about their faith simply isn't enough; no, he had to use his right as a god loving american to go onto a public board and berate the beliefs of said denomination for doing nothing more than singing their beliefs out loud with their hearts and with meaning, and to spread that message of decency, love and joy with no consideration for them.

I choose to use my voice and considerable vocabulary for a different purpose; I choose to use my voice to defend people I happen to know, on the whole have never actually meant any harm, yet seem to get attacked more than scientology or the dianetics foundation.

Understanding and acceptance of each other costs nothing, and it is the fundamental principle on which all religious practices are based upon, but constantly gets ignored far too often, simply because it's convenient to do so.

I'm sorry you interpret my responses as hostile (actually, I'm not...interpret them as you will - you obviously can't take a commentary at face value), and I'm sorry that you seem to think my responses fall flat and aren't quite at your level - maybe you'd like to step up to mine and try to play on a higher field?

[Netrix]

Originally Posted by monahan

maybe you'd like to step up to mine and try to play on a higher field?

I think that would be difficult for most people. Again, very nice post.

[hhacckerr]

Yes, I am actually Latter-Day Saint (Mormon).

Those people knocking on your door are our Missionaries.
Their mission is to invite people to come unto Christ (see Jeremiah 16:16).

Also, you are using that scripture out of context.
It is not actually referring to the Bible as a whole, as the Bible was compiled from different writings. John would not have been aware of the future existence of a compilation of assorted scriptural writings.

As the Bible is a compilation of different writings, I would like to point out that it was not written in chronological order. In fact, Revelations was one of the earlier books written by John, and it is unlikely that he would condemn himself.

I do not officially represent the church so if I have lied, it is solely my fault, not that of the church.

[Puck0714]

Nice posts monahan and hhacckerr.

[Netrix]

Originally Posted by monahan

I think it's a trend these days that people are constantly on the defensive, because they assume others are on the offensive. Well. The small minded and weak, at least; I've found that those with a greater capacity for understanding tend to be more open.

Apparently I was assuming something by saying this:

I have noticed over and over again that people tend to assume that long posts are "rants", and that a person posting such is hostile.

Darth Camel gave me -rep for this "stupid assumption"...

I happen to consider this an observation and not an assumption at all. At the very most, someone might think that I was implying something, but that still is not an assumption. I was merely stating a possibility as to why Darth Camel would think the way he did. I did not say that it was the reason.

[Darth Camel]

Originally Posted by Netrix

I was merely stating a possibility as to why Darth Camel would think the way he did. I did not say that it was the reason.

You stated it pretty much as fact. The whole "it vexes me part" also gave off an air of arrogance. I'm sorry if I misinterpreted.

Originally Posted by monahan

maybe you'd like to step up to mine and try to play on a higher field?

No thanks. However, I would like to thank you for being a ray of sunshine on a rainy day (it was raining where I live). I'm being serious. I love provoking people into exposing their moral self-righteousness. It's amusing. Go futile internet forums! Next time, fight for what you believe in when you can actually accomplish something. You didn't change my viewpoint. Instead, you wasted time deconstructing my posts and responding to them, more than the 5 minutes I've spent total (and I've actually had some fun). Use your time wisely, otherwise, at the end of the day, you'll end up not doing anything significant with your life. It's great that you have strongly held beliefs. But you wasted your time responding to me. Again, I would like to thank you (and Netrix). There's nothing like a good laugh after a long day of work. I love the zB community.

[Locke]

Dear GOD, why is it that almost EVERY topic in this board has to come down to non-Christians finding every possible reason to bash Christians!? It just goes beyond the realm of sanity! Believe it or not, not all Christians are stupid/ignorant/etc. no matter what you may have experienced. If you're going to make that sort of claim, I'd like specific examples of such instances, as well as reasons as to why such claims apply to every Christian. Otherwise, they apply to your experience, and that alone. And you are most certainly not the only human being on Earth who has ever experienced anything. Pardon me if this sounds rude, but if you guys don't have anything new to say, why can't you just shut about it already! The Christians here are sick and tired of having to deal with this crap! Instead of wasting your time trying to find ways with which to show off who can hate Christians more, why don't you try actually responding to the question as objectively as possible? A simple:

Mormons are just as entitled to their beliefs as you are. Any firm Bible believing Christian ought to be doing the same, in fact. The Great Commission is a command to go forth and make disciple of all nations. Mormons are doing the same thing.

would suffice. Inject personal commentary if you must, but attacks aren't necessary.