Hmph

[RICHxPUNKxROCKER]

I believe in myself.
Don't you think that if there was a god, like the christians believe in, that he would be so conceited? I mean, he demands devotion for your life, and if you dont, you suffer forever. Nine Inch Nails has a good song about this point called Heresy. When i realized i was already dead, now i only see the passion to help humanity without blind faith.

[HipHopScribe]

You're making the mistake of an anthropomorphised conception of God, you refer to it as "he" and attribute human characteristics like conceit to it. I don't believe in God, but if God does exist, conceit is not a possible characteristic, seeing as conceit is holding an opinion of yourself that you're not worthy of, so surely an all-knowing, all-wise, creator of the universe couldn't be conceited.

[Darth Camel]

Originally Posted by HipHopScribe

You're making the mistake of an anthropomorphised conception of God, you refer to it as "he" and attribute human characteristics like conceit to it. I don't believe in God, but if God does exist, conceit is not a possible characteristic, seeing as conceit is holding an opinion of yourself that you're not worthy of, so surely an all-knowing, all-wise, creator of the universe couldn't be conceited.

Exactly. There are many different views of God. Just because you reject the typical Judeo-Christian view of God doesn't mean you reject God entirely.

[nathanlawliet]

Originally Posted by RICHxPUNKxROCKER

I believe in myself.
Don't you think that if there was a god, like the christians believe in, that he would be so conceited? I mean, he demands devotion for your life, and if you dont, you suffer forever. Nine Inch Nails has a good song about this point called Heresy. When i realized i was already dead, now i only see the passion to help humanity without blind faith.

You think of this more pessimistically than other people I know. When you say "demands devotion for your life" it's not like you have to be miserable and always go like," I can't do this or I'll go to hell."

It just means that God wants you to worship him, believe in him and that his son Jesus died for our sins. When you say "if you don't, you suffer forever." It's not like if you don't go to Church every Sunday you go to hell, it's not accepting him as your savior that sends you to hell.

[HipHopScribe]

Originally Posted by nathanlawliet

You think of this more pessimistically than other people I know. When you say "demands devotion for your life" it's not like you have to be miserable and always go like," I can't do this or I'll go to hell."

It just means that God wants you to worship him, believe in him and that his son Jesus died for our sins. When you say "if you don't, you suffer forever." It's not like if you don't go to Church every Sunday you go to hell, it's not accepting him as your savior that sends you to hell.

Depends on which views you ascribe to, for many people that is exactly what God demands.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by HipHopScribe

Depends on which views you ascribe to, for many people that is exactly what God demands.

Really? I wasn't aware of that. The only major Christian denomination that comes even close to that is Catholisism, and certainly not to the degree I think you're imagining.

[HipHopScribe]

Originally Posted by Locke

Really? I wasn't aware of that. The only major Christian denomination that comes even close to that is Catholisism, and certainly not to the degree I think you're imagining.

I wasn't thinking of a major denomination, I just know its a belief that some people have

[Locke]

Well, you gave the impression that this is a widely held belief, which is completely unfounded. Specifics are important.

[Moth]

First, he knows we're human and fail, so he gave his son, who also is God in a sense, to give his life. God gave his life first. God gave us a sort of "undo button" cause he knows we aren't perfect. His demands really aren't that harsh. Most everything associated with being a good Christian comes with being a good citizen. Some stuff, such as no sex before marriage and no abortion, may go beyond the normal ethics expectancy these days, but really aren't that far off, and are really things that will just make your life better. Have sex before marriage and you're more likely to have divorce and/or unhappy marriage. This has been proven both by studies on numbers via surveys and such, as well as more scientifically through studying of brain, and learning that if you've stayed pure till your marriage day, triggers in your brain will function properly and you will see your wife as the most beautiful thing. You will still acknowledge other girls and such as "hot" or not, but you will think your wife has them all beat hands down, and you will begin to look at others as comparisons to your wife and such, suchas she has my wifes eyes. and no abortion is for two reasons. One, it's murder and murder shouldn't ever be done. Two, you can't undo it, so if you don it you submit yourself to a life of asking yourself what if's, and regret.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Moth

First, he knows we're human and fail, so he gave his son, who also is God in a sense, to give his life. God gave his life first. God gave us a sort of "undo button" cause he knows we aren't perfect. His demands really aren't that harsh. Most everything associated with being a good Christian comes with being a good citizen. Some stuff, such as no sex before marriage and no abortion, may go beyond the normal ethics expectancy these days, but really aren't that far off, and are really things that will just make your life better. Have sex before marriage and you're more likely to have divorce and/or unhappy marriage. This has been proven both by studies on numbers via surveys and such, as well as more scientifically through studying of brain, and learning that if you've stayed pure till your marriage day, triggers in your brain will function properly and you will see your wife as the most beautiful thing. You will still acknowledge other girls and such as "hot" or not, but you will think your wife has them all beat hands down, and you will begin to look at others as comparisons to your wife and such, suchas she has my wifes eyes. and no abortion is for two reasons. One, it's murder and murder shouldn't ever be done. Two, you can't undo it, so if you don it you submit yourself to a life of asking yourself what if's, and regret.

As someone who has argued on this topic before, a little more evidence might be in order. Studies, for one thing, have gone both ways; it largely depends on what the commissioners want the study to say. Even if the results aren't actually manipulated, which has happened, just the way in which the studies were conducted can often lead to bias becoming a factor. To use a study as proof, you really need to detail the experiment as well as the result, and how the two are connected, rather than simply telling us what the scientist said. Also, just because you see abortion as murder doesn't mean everyone else does; don't forget, not everyone in America is a Christian. Whereas I or you may be inclined to agree that from conception that baby is a human, there are lots of people who say otherwise. You can't use that as an argument. Also, for such a sheer number of assertions-I counted 5-you don't really make any convincing arguments to accompany them. It's fine to express your views and all, but in a debate forum, people expect to see real evidence. If you want, we can talk over PM and I can tell you some of the arguments I've used in the past, but this topic really isn't the place. So, with that said, just try to be a little more prudent when it comes to posting.