Scientology

[1wdc]

Scientology is widely regarded as a scam and a cult.

Discuss your personal feelings towards Scientology.

Wiki:
Founder - L Ron Hubbard
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L_Ron_Hubbard
Scientology
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientology

[Little Horn]

Originally Posted by 1wdc

Scientology is widely regarded as a scam and a cult.

Discuss your personal feelings towards Scientology.

Wiki:
Founder - L Ron Hubbard
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L_Ron_Hubbard
Scientology
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientology

It's a cult. Honestly I view it in the same light as I view Islamic extremists. The only difference is they don't have the numbers.

[Bear holding a shark]

I veiw it as a money-making machine (like most religions).

The theology is baseless and sounds like it was written on a napkin at a bar after a few too many beers. Everyone needs something to believe in though, and I guess some are desperate enough to buy their "salvation".

[HipHopScribe]

I view it as a hierarchical organization that exploits and pushes its agenda on vulnerable people looking for something to believe in. So basically, it's like the Catholic Church (or most other religious organizations), just with a lot fewer followers.

[tenritsu]

I've recently come to learn about Scientology, and I gotta say, they're sickening. I disagree with the religion = you gotta pay money thing. You can believe in a religion but still refuse to pay fees. With scientology, you have to pay thousands of dollars just to advance in your "training"... It's just disgusting.

Recently, Jason Beghe, a former banner-boy for Scientology, defected and gave an interview about why he quit and about Scientology in general. Give it a look: http://www.vimeo.com/919064

[1wdc]

Originally Posted by HipHopScribe

I view it as a hierarchical organization that exploits and pushes its agenda on vulnerable people looking for something to believe in. So basically, it's like the Catholic Church (or most other religious organizations), just with a lot fewer followers.

But the catholic church doesn't cost money to move up in. I read somewhere that one hour auditing sessions cost more than 100$ even though the procedure costs next to nothing (touching metal bars that give off and read small electrical charges). And to reach the highest point in the church would cost your more than $400,000. The money they make goes to one person (unlike the Catholic church's) and because its a 'religion' that money is completely free of taxes. in 1981 L Ron Hubbard was worth more than $200M and didn't pay a dime in taxes.

Whats worse is that Scientology aggressively rejects psychology, you aren't allowed to take anti-depressants, or any other psych-drugs. People have been killed because of this method of treating psychiatric problems. Like a mother who had a schizophrenic son who was a Scientologist she was told to treat schizophrenia with vitamins instead of drugs.

The Catholic church also uses a majority ( I would estimate 90+%) of its money towards helping the community. While the Co$ has not made any public efforts towards helping anybody but the leader of Scientology.

[HipHopScribe]

Originally Posted by 1wdc

But the catholic church doesn't cost money to move up in. I read somewhere that one hour auditing sessions cost more than 100$ even though the procedure costs next to nothing (touching metal bars that give off and read small electrical charges). And to reach the highest point in the church would cost your more than $400,000. The money they make goes to one person (unlike the Catholic church's) and because its a 'religion' that money is completely free of taxes. in 1981 L Ron Hubbard was worth more than $200M and didn't pay a dime in taxes.

Whats worse is that Scientology aggressively rejects psychology, you aren't allowed to take anti-depressants, or any other psych-drugs. People have been killed because of this method of treating psychiatric problems. Like a mother who had a schizophrenic son who was a Scientologist she was told to treat schizophrenia with vitamins instead of drugs.

The Catholic church also uses a majority ( I would estimate 90+%) of its money towards helping the community. While the Co$ has not made any public efforts towards helping anybody but the leader of Scientology.

I'm not trying to make this a "what's worse" discussion, I merely used the Catholic Church because it is the largest religious organization, and I'm only saying the basic structure and tactics are similar. With that said, I believe many of the differences can be attributed to the size of the organization, the time in existence, the origin and the doctrine pushed by the organization.

Scientology, being founded in the 20th century, takes advantage of market concepts, legal systems, and basic capitalist structures that are unique to the modern world. It was founded under little threat of someone tracking down and killing everyone involved in it, little threat of government intervention to just slow its growth, and even under a government that has policies which help to promote its growth. As such, the material give and take dynamic is less important, it doesn't need to cast itself as a benevolent actor in the same way, it can be content with a slow build up of followers, and with the use of modern marketing techniques. And I have no problem believing that the founders of the Catholic church were just nicer people who actually did want to do some good, for people other than themselves.

As for requiring individual contributions for people to advance, no the Catholic Church doesn't do that (though people within the Catholic Church did sell people tickets to heaven at one point). Again, I do think the intentions are more benevolent with Catholicism, but from a practical standpoint, they don't need to force individual contributions, because they're grown so large and so prestigious that people, countries, and organizations need no such urging to hand over large sums of money.

As for Scientology acting as a tax free organization, because it's religion in nature, I do have a problem with that, I don't believe any religious organization should receive special treatment from the government.

As for the Anti-Psychology agenda, I dislike that as much as you, but again, that doesn't separate it from other organizations like the Catholic church, and as far as agendas go, I find the anti-condom agenda pushed by the Catholic church much more disgusting.

My main point is not to try and say they're exactly the same, I think clearly Scientology was founded only to benefit Hubbard, while the Catholic church does have largely benevolent purpose, but structurally, they're two hierarchically oriented organizations, where the elite push their agenda on easily influenced people. I don't like it, but I don't see the beliefs of the people who follow it as any more or less absurd, it's just as valid for people to exercise their free will to accept those beliefs, and contribute money to Scientology, as to the Catholic church, or any other organization.

The real problem that I think Scientology highlights, is that religion is a very profitable way to exploit people, and our supposedly secular government just makes it easier for religious organizations to do so, by giving them breaks build into the system.

[1wdc]

I know they are the same, I just hope somebody with enough money builds a new branch of Scientology. One where money is not an object of value and auditing sessions are free. Scientology couldn't act because:
A. They'd look like a bunch of idiots for attacking somebody offering free services of religious purpose (Revealing the fact that you do need money to move up)
B. It would be absurd for the leader of Scientology to claim he owns a monopoly over a religion.
C. They would receive mass opposition from people of all walks of life.

It would be an amazing event and I would just sit back and laugh as people stop paying $400+ and the Co$ crumbled into another one of todays community helping religions.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by HipHopScribe

I'm not trying to make this a "what's worse" discussion, I merely used the Catholic Church because it is the largest religious organization, and I'm only saying the basic structure and tactics are similar. With that said, I believe many of the differences can be attributed to the size of the organization, the time in existence, the origin and the doctrine pushed by the organization.

As for Scientology acting as a tax free organization, because it's religion in nature, I do have a problem with that, I don't believe any religious organization should receive special treatment from the government.

As for the Anti-Psychology agenda, I dislike that as much as you, but again, that doesn't separate it from other organizations like the Catholic church, and as far as agendas go, I find the anti-condom agenda pushed by the Catholic church much more disgusting.

Basic structure and tactics? Care to give some proof to back that up? For instance, have you heard of the Scientologist's "Fair Game policy?" If someone so much as breaths anti-church sentiment, they become "fair game" to attack in any way, and to destroy utterly. Also, by what could only be a joint action of YouTube and the Church a while back, any anti-Scientologist video had its view count frozen to keep it off the front page. If you want to know more of the tactics of the "Church" of Scientology, check out www.xenu.net.

Why not? Do you know why they get tax breaks in the first place? Any organiztion with the express purpose of bettering the community without profit to itself meets the requirements for tax breaks. That's why churches get priviledges; because they are intended to do a service to the people of America. Now, does Scientology fit this definition? No, but just by registering as a church they get the benefits.

Anti-psychology is one thing; anti-pharmaceuticals is a whole 'nother issue. When you withhold medication for a clear disorder, and when it becomes fatal, you are accountable for that person's death. If there was any justice, that person should be locked up. And while the whole anti-condom thing may not make sense, let's remember what the Catholics believe: that any children produced are from God, and that the only time a child should be produced is in the form of marriage. Now, to ban condoms for America would be reprehensible, but when someone's beliefs more or less remove the need for them, it's understandable why they do that. Medication, on the other hand, is necessary no matter who you are or what you do, if you have a problem.

[HipHopScribe]

Originally Posted by Locke

Basic structure and tactics? Care to give some proof to back that up? For instance, have you heard of the Scientologist's "Fair Game policy?" If someone so much as breaths anti-church sentiment, they become "fair game" to attack in any way, and to destroy utterly. Also, by what could only be a joint action of YouTube and the Church a while back, any anti-Scientologist video had its view count frozen to keep it off the front page. If you want to know more of the tactics of the "Church" of Scientology, check out www.xenu.net.

Certainly violence against those who are deemed against the Church is far from unique to Scientology, speaking of the Catholic church, I'm not familiar with contemporary incidents, but it is the church that was behind the Spanish Inquisition after all.

Why not? Do you know why they get tax breaks in the first place? Any organiztion with the express purpose of bettering the community without profit to itself meets the requirements for tax breaks. That's why churches get priviledges; because they are intended to do a service to the people of America. Now, does Scientology fit this definition? No, but just by registering as a church they get the benefits.

And the fact that Scientology doesn't fit that definition, but can still receive benefits illustrates that there is a problem with that set up.

Anti-psychology is one thing; anti-pharmaceuticals is a whole 'nother issue. When you withhold medication for a clear disorder, and when it becomes fatal, you are accountable for that person's death. If there was any justice, that person should be locked up. And while the whole anti-condom thing may not make sense, let's remember what the Catholics believe: that any children produced are from God, and that the only time a child should be produced is in the form of marriage. Now, to ban condoms for America would be reprehensible, but when someone's beliefs more or less remove the need for them, it's understandable why they do that. Medication, on the other hand, is necessary no matter who you are or what you do, if you have a problem.

The mere influence of the Catholic anti-condom agenda is probably what makes it so much worse to me in reality, but in terms of principles, yes, the anti-pharmaceutical agenda is more disturbing.

[MemphisMasenko]

I view it as another religion too they have a right to believe in what they believe in; They are people just like Christians, Catholics, Islamics, Buddhists, and all other religions. I used to think that they were crazy and looney too like some of the previous posters but since the "Who listens to rap anyways" thread topic still exists in the pop culture I have noticed alot of bashing of other genres of music and bashing of other religions here too I have since decided to stop bashing the things that I don't like and learn some tolerance here. Cool people like Isaac Hayes are Scientologists and they aren't money hungry freaks or anything bad. Someone who might have a Zune and is a member here could come across this and get offended so I learn to tolerate because I don't want that member to think that they aren't welcome here and defeat the whole purpose of the social.

[BobtheWalrus]

A friend of mine told me that it's based off of a Sci-Fi novel
It's very strange to me

But I'm okay with it, I accept that if people believe that this is the way for them, then so be it

[USMCWarrior]

I think it's a cult and a load of crap honestly.

[1wdc]

Originally Posted by MemphisMasenko

I view it as another religion too they have a right to believe in what they believe in; They are people just like Christians, Catholics, Islamics, Buddhists, and all other religions. I used to think that they were crazy and looney too like some of the previous posters but since the "Who listens to rap anyways" thread topic still exists in the pop culture I have noticed alot of bashing of other genres of music and bashing of other religions here too I have since decided to stop bashing the things that I don't like and learn some tolerance here. Cool people like Isaac Hayes are Scientologists and they aren't money hungry freaks or anything bad. Someone who might have a Zune and is a member here could come across this and get offended so I learn to tolerate because I don't want that member to think that they aren't welcome here and defeat the whole purpose of the social.

I personally don't care about what people believe.

I'm not going after the followers of Scientology at all, I'm going after Co$. The followers of Scientology have a right to know what their church is doing, how it was made, who made it, and for what purpose. What decision they come to after hearing the evidence is their own decision and I will respect it.

What the Co$ is making money off of peoples beliefs, in fact they purposely go after young celebrities to recruit to attract more members. What religion do you know has a celebrity only resort?

[MemphisMasenko]

Originally Posted by 1wdc

I personally don't care about what people believe.

I'm not going after the followers of Scientology at all, I'm going after Co$. The followers of Scientology have a right to know what their church is doing, how it was made, who made it, and for what purpose. What decision they come to after hearing the evidence is their own decision and I will respect it.

What the Co$ is making money off of peoples beliefs, in fact they purposely go after young celebrities to recruit to attract more members. What religion do you know has a celebrity only resort?

But in the end every religion is gonna make money off of peoples beliefs.
Scientology just has the balls to charge them at a higher price.
And I think that most regular Scientologist people have a brain, they wouldn't decide to be something if they didn't know anything about it or if they didn't believe in anything.
Young celebrities have a choice to be any religion they want, advertisement doesn't make everybody buy and believe in something.

[Weesnaw]

Anyone willing to believe that crap probably wouldn't have lasted much longer in the outside world anyways.

[tenritsu]

Originally Posted by BobtheWalrus

A friend of mine told me that it's based off of a Sci-Fi novel
It's very strange to me

But I'm okay with it, I accept that if people believe that this is the way for them, then so be it

It is, the creator of the religion was a sci-fi writer prior to creating this religion.

[Gow616]

Ron L. Hubbard's science fiction was okay and in some cases good but when it went into the whole scientology vein it went downhill superfast.

Give me Reverend Ivan Stang's holy writings any day of the week, month, year, lifetime, eternity over R.L. Hubbard's scientology writings.

FYI, Reverend Ivan Stang was one of the writers of the Book of the Subgenius. A book that is all about the teachings of J.R. "Bob" Dobbs and how he will get you slack. Plus until he sees your green you are pink to him.

I feel R.L. Hubbard's religion albeit started for a different purpose has become focused on that money aspect but whereas J.R. "Bob" Dobbs gives you slack back, Scientology just gives you bad films that are only good to watch (barely) for cheese factor.