Ok,
So if you were god (or 'a' god) could you then create life from nothing. I would sure like to see you try.
You were formed with free thought so you could have true love for the creator, forced love is slavery.
Evolutionary theories make the universe 'billions' of years old (paraphrased). My question still remains, where did all the matter in the universe come from? And who put it there?
If you tell me that all the matter in known existence has always been there, I will call you a liar. Carbon dating (not the most efficient or reliable method) would then wield results of rocks being 7 quadrillion or 50 octillion years old. And there isn't anything that old in any of our vast databases.
The point is, you can throw hypothetical situations and quotes around all day, but common sense and logic still doesn't prove you right.
Ok,
So if you were god (or 'a' god) could you then create life from nothing. I would sure like to see you try.
You were formed with free thought so you could have true love for the creator, forced love is slavery.
Evolutionary theories make the universe 'billions' of years old (paraphrased). My question still remains, where did all the matter in the universe come from? And who put it there?
If you tell me that all the matter in known existence has always been there, I will call you a liar. Carbon dating (not the most efficient or reliable method) would then wield results of rocks being 7 quadrillion or 50 octillion years old. And there isn't anything that old in any of our vast databases.
The point is, you can throw hypothetical situations and quotes around all day, but common sense and logic still doesn't prove you right.
Why do you doubt that I am god? I can certainly create life, from nothing or non life, I have explained how to achieve such a thing. Furthermore, the creation of life, does not necessairly mean one is god. Therefore, I will ask you what is god?
I was created, or "formed" with free thought so I could think for myself, and decide whether god is existant. I should not be punished, for using gifts for thier intended purposes.
You ask from were all matter in the Universe originated? I will ask you something similar, were did a omniscient being of outright ultimate power originate? You deny that the matter of the universe could not have simply "existed" and yet you believe that a omniscient being randomly exists? All the matter in the Universe, originated from the Big Bang. When the entropy of the previous universe reached high levels of instability, in terms of no or very little free energy being available, the universe exploded and the matter that currently exists, is the residue and the reactions of the explosion and some of the matter that existed in the previous universe. Also, this leads to the conclusion that the "previous" universe was infinitely larger, as a result of the First Law of Thermodynamics, or the Law of Conservation of Mass. Evidently, this will continue until the residue or the mass of the products reaches zero, after which the Universe will exist in alternate ways. However, this still brings up the question of how the very "first" Universe was created. The answer to this lies deeply in Quantam Physics, and from what I have read, is a property of dark matter, of which little is understood.
Perhaps, theoretically, some of the Carbon is indeed quadrillions of years old. However, our technology cannot trace such minute amounts. However, having Carbon so old is virtually impossible, due to the relatively small half life of Carbon. Once the full life is reached, it no longer exists in the form of "Carbon" per se. Once again, First Law of Thermodynamics. The Carbon of the Universe is replenished by various chemical reactions that occur within the Universe, and within planets, and stars.
My point regarding the vast variety of religions and powerful, omniscient, gods, existing since the dawn of time, still stands. How is it, that there have been a huge number of gods throughout history, and everyone believed they existed, and you could be punished with impunity for disbelieving. Yet now there is suddenly only one god?
The point is hypothetical situations, allow one to demonstrate the flaws or fallacies of certain logic. Logic and Common Sense still stand.
Last edited by MercifulBoss; 07-06-2009 at 04:13 PM.
Support Team GFX Crew Global Moderator Super Zuner²
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MercifulBoss
I was born to a Christian Orthodox family, and was baptized as an Orthodox, and if you like I can attempt to disprove creation and the existence of God, through religious teachings.
Many atheists try to use the idea that since they previously were in the church that makes whatever the say against the church factual, when 99% of it is a biased anger against individuals in the church they dislike.
Also notice how I said individuals in the church not christians, the worst advocates of Christ and the Christian world-view are those who are church goers but not Christ followers.
Many atheists try to use the idea that since they previously were in the church that makes whatever the say against the church factual, when 99% of it is a biased anger against individuals in the church they dislike.
Also notice how I said individuals in the church not christians, the worst advocates of Christ and the Christian world-view are those who are church goers but not Christ followers.
That is very insulting. I simply stated that to demonstrate that I held a belief as to the existance of god, and held a belief in the church. However, I have been convinced otherwise.
Also, I hardly remember anyone from my church. And I would never include anger towards someone, in arguments. I am inclined to believe that your statement is baised anger, for you accuse me of it.
As a Catholic, this is what I believe in the following areas, and to my knowledge, this is congruent with the teachings of my church, Catholicism (which, as I am discovering, many people think they know about, but very few actually do).
Evolution vs Creationism- for me, these two theories walk hand-in-hand. When you read Genesis and the order in which the animals were made (sea animals, air animals, land animals, humans) and study evolution (which btw has a few holes like any theory), you see the development of animals in both are the same (starts in ocean, leads to humans). To carry this point further, in Genesis it tells how light and dark were first made, then land and water, then life, which is what science puts forth in the Big Bang Theory. As to the matter of the Earth being made in 6 days, this is actually a mistranslation from Hebrew. It simply means 6 periods of time. I honestly can't see how people don't see this.
Bad vs Good people going to Heaven or Hell- Humans know SO little about either Heaven or Hell, no one on Earth knows who will go where. As a Catholic, I don't even have to believe that any one is in Hell. After you die, and you see God's face, you can choose to go to it or away from it. If it is something you have been seeing in your everyday life, you will go towards it (aka Heaven). This means you do not have to be Catholic, Christian, or even religious. Sure, those help, but as long as you know God in your life and recognize him you are saved. This even insures that aboriginals or whoever who have not even been presented with religion can be saved because if they lived a good life they will know God, even if their first meeting with Him is after death. They will go to Heaven if they accept him as their savior. Athiests could go to Heaven if they lead a good life, knew God, and repented for sins, just like any Christian would do. The problem is many athiests do not know God (thus Athiesm).
Virgin Birth- as stated before, its God we're talking about. Anything is possible through Him. Plus the fact that there have been documented cases in animals of virgin births (admittedly few, however).
Prayers- I have not read a single post on this board recognizing prayer for what it is (sorry if someone has and I missed it). Prayer IS NOT asking God for stuff. There are many types, and that is one type. I find prayers of thanksgiving much more valuable than prayers of petition, personally. Prayer is simply talking to God. If you ask Him for something, it doesn't mean it will come true (especially if you bargain with Him). He already knows what you want anyway. Just prayer for you to live according to His plan and everything will work out the best.
In closing...Science can not and will never be able to prove the existence or inexistence(real word?) of religion. They should not be seen as two warring sides, they should be seen as cooperating idealogies to advance human understanding...Do not take everything in the Bible literally. You have to use your brain (scary, I know) and your conscience to decide what to believe and what was added by humans. There is no steadfast rule as to how to do this. Just look for the general message, not the specific details...I think many users on this thread (not naming any names) would benefit greatly from a real class in religion and doctrine (not a high school course or anything) because many of their complaints can be answered from a religious standpoint, but I, nor anyone else here it seems, can do that, so the conversation just goes around in circles. An open mind is key here.
For individual users:
Rocky, I'm sure you've realized this by now, but you have to read the Bible before bashing it. I literally LOLed when I read you're question. It was so ignorant and apparent that you hadn't even read Genesis (the first book).
Little Horn, I respect you so much. You are one of the only, if not the only, athiests I've encountered who has done extensive research on the subject and come to an intelligent and respectful decision. Not influenced by emotionalism or popular theory, you actually did your own studying and made your own choice. For this I completely respect your viewpoint, even if it is different than mine.
