Serious questions for the Christians on this board

[Darth Drunk]

To me religion in general was a way for people to explain the unexplainable, which can now be explained for the most part by science. Yes I understand that science has not been able to tell us how the universe began, but I know you sure as hell cant tell me where God came from. I also know that the bible says that God was always there, and always will be (Here is the scripture Where did God come from?) On the flip side couldn't I just say that the universe was always here? I mean if your logic says he was always here then why couldn't the Universe?

To answer the prayer question I have always found myself saying the same thing as almost everyone else here it is nothing more than a placebo. Answered prayers are nothing more than mere coincidences. For example lets say that you wished that something would happen and it happened, is this a prayer or a wish?

To the argument of morals do you guys really even know what the word morals means? I am assuming not. By definition the word morals means "of, pertaining to, or concerned with the principles or rules of right conduct or the distinction between right and wrong; ethical: moral attitudes. ". So yes most of you have the general grasp of morals for our culture, or the christian culture. You must understand that morals are made and defined by man. So what is to say that one mans morals are correct over another mans? the answer there isn't. I just like anyone else have my own set of rules that I live by I believe that we call it a conscious. Your conscious is your own set of moral codes that you personally defined. A set of codes that you follow in addition to those set by your culture. For those who wish to know what I am talking about you can wither spend the thousands of dollars that I have on college sociology courses to learn about other cultures norms and morals and take my word for it or read about the Arapesh just one of many that have a very different set of morals from us.

[iruka]

If there was tangible proof of God, of course anyone would easily believe.

What he's looking for is belief and faith even when there's none of that. He wants to know that you'll trust in him and believe that he's there even though there's no hardcore evidence to prove he exists.

[Darth Drunk]

Originally Posted by iruka

If there was tangible proof of God, of course anyone would easily believe.

What he's looking for is belief and faith even when there's none of that. He wants to know that you'll trust in him and believe that he's there even though there's no hardcore evidence to prove he exists.

Yeah well no matter how hard I want to believe Tupac is alive, that doesn't mean he is.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by yoursavior

Something I have a hard time fathoming is how most Christians follow the word of the Bible regardless of the many inconsistencies. If the Bible really is the word of God, why would He let it be marred with imperfection and loopholes? Is it not possible for the Bible to be a complete work of fiction, like a fairy-tale of sorts? What makes you think that the writers of the Bible weren't just creative writers with the means of spreading hope in bad times?

If I was Christian, I don't think I'd be able to follow the Bible through any method but faith, but what reason is there to put faith in something that has as much chance of being false as it does being true?

Now, put faith aside for this question. If you were approached with the option of carrying on into an after-life after a life-time of worshiping a higher power, but there was a 50% chance that you would never actually ascend/descend after your life of devotion, would you still take the risk?

I've heard this charge before, but whenever I ask for details, people either don't have any, or they're flat out wrong. Do you have any inconsistencies you'd like to point out?

50/50? Sounds like Islam or Catholisism, not Protestant Christianity. In both you are never eternally secure: in Islam it doesn't matter how good are bad you are, God can still send you wherever he wants, and in Catholisism if you have any sin on you when you die, you go to purgatory where only people who love you can save you by giving money, time, and prayers. Now, in Protestant Christianity, when Christ claims you as his, you are his, forever, no matter what you've done, no matter what you do. You could become a Christian, kill a hundred people, shoot yourself, and still go to Heaven. Granted, you will only cause God grief for your sin, but Jesus will still be your negotiator and protector, and you will still have guaranteed salvation. There's no 50/50 chance at all. The only gamble you take is on whether or not Christianity is true; if Christianity is true, well then, lucky you just got into Heaven. If, say, Secular Humanism is true, then you've lived your life in a way that made you happy, and then you died, just like anyone else. The only way you can lose, as far as these two faiths are concerned, is if you are not a Christian and Christianity is true. And even with other faiths, like Hinduism or Islam, you can still get into Heaven/Nirvana/etc. if you're lucky.

[Darth Drunk]

Originally Posted by Locke

... and in Catholicism if you have any sin on you when you die, you go to purgatory where only people who love you can save you by giving money, time, and prayers.

WRONG! This may have been true over hundreds of years ago. Today just like your protestant churches the catholic church will accept donations to help pay for things. Yes prayers are used for those whom we have lost, just as you would pray for someone who is going through a difficult time. I do not know why almost all protestants accuse catholics of this whole money thing. They have not done this for over 300 years. I used to be a catholic, and I feel as if you have no clue as to what you are talking about, and I would greatly appreciate if you got your "facts" by observation not by what your pathetic priest has to say.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by lacrosse_man16

WRONG! This may have been true over hundreds of years ago. Today just like your protestant churches the catholic church will accept donations to help pay for things. Yes prayers are used for those whom we have lost, just as you would pray for someone who is going through a difficult time. I do not know why almost all protestants accuse catholics of this whole money thing. They have not done this for over 300 years. I used to be a catholic, and I feel as if you have no clue as to what you are talking about, and I would greatly appreciate if you got your "facts" by observation not by what your pathetic priest has to say.

Well, I'm not absolutely certain, but haven't some modern pope condoned the practice, and some condemn it? Though your refutations are phrased more like agreements. Did you mean that how I percieve the pratices of the Catholic church is wrong because Catholics are more like Protestants now? I'm sure Pope Leo X must be rolling in his grave. Also, while I'm fairly certain that no modern pope condones indulgences, I'm fairly certain that extra tithing is supposed to help those in purgatory, no? It's hard to tell when the entire Bible can be reinterpreted by one man. :p

.....Your last statement puzzles me. Not only are you directly attacking my pastor, but you seem to think me an enemy of the Catholic church, which you have venomously attacked on these boards in the past. Nothing could be further from the truth. I know a lot of Protestants who still think that most, if not all Catholics are not right with the Lord. Bull. Catholics, to me, are just another denomination of Christianity, with differering interpretations on the Bible. Granted, I disagree with some major Catholic doctrine, but that makes me neither ignorant nor hateful. I just disagree with them, that's all. I disagree with a lot of people, simply because I think a lot of people are wrong. But that doesn't make me ignorant or hateful, and certainly not spiteful, as your post appears to be. So, don't talk about things that you have no knowledge or business talking about, and please refrain from flaming people you don't even know.

And for the record: 90% of my knowledge comes from my own observations and research; as I mentioned before, I don't trust a lot of people to be right. And my pastor doesn't really talk about Catholic doctrine at all.

[Jay_Fila]

Originally Posted by Locke

Now, in Protestant Christianity, when Christ claims you as his, you are his, forever, no matter what you've done, no matter what you do. You could become a Christian, kill a hundred people, shoot yourself, and still go to Heaven. Granted, you will only cause God grief for your sin, but Jesus will still be your negotiator and protector, and you will still have guaranteed salvation.

For the nonbelievers who may misinterpret this...when you belong to Christ, you do go to heaven, but if you do this without sincerly seeking forgiveness and a deep regret for what you did, then you most likely don't belong to Christ.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Jay_Fila

For the nonbelievers who may misinterpret this...when you belong to Christ, you do go to heaven, but if you do this without sincerly seeking forgiveness and a deep regret for what you did, then you most likely don't belong to Christ.

Well, naturally. Actions are result of the heart. A bad heart will usually result in bad actions, and a good heart will usually produce good actions. Not guaranteed, of course, but in general.

[sixstring38]

Now, i'm not folowing the current topic, but there is something that has yet to be addressed.... "But why would God intentionally put hurdles in our way to trip us up? Why would he allow rational people such as myself to slip through the cracks and burn in hell for using the reason he supposedly gave me? I know you cannot answer these questions, but this is the type of rational that leads me to believe there is no God. Most of the answers given to back up religion just do not make sense."

I have an answer to this! I do not beleive that God is trying to fool anyone, nor do i think that it is a test of faith as others have said. As a follower of Jesus, i believe that we have an enemy. the devil has been called the great deceiver. He decieved Adam and Eve, he deceives us every time we fall to temptation. He has even deceived himself into beleiving that he can defeat God, when was defeated the moment Jesus died for us. God does not deceive, it is not in His nature.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by sixstring38

Now, i'm not folowing the current topic, but there is something that has yet to be addressed.... "But why would God intentionally put hurdles in our way to trip us up? Why would he allow rational people such as myself to slip through the cracks and burn in hell for using the reason he supposedly gave me? I know you cannot answer these questions, but this is the type of rational that leads me to believe there is no God. Most of the answers given to back up religion just do not make sense."

I have an answer to this! I do not beleive that God is trying to fool anyone, nor do i think that it is a test of faith as others have said. As a follower of Jesus, i believe that we have an enemy. the devil has been called the great deceiver. He decieved Adam and Eve, he deceives us every time we fall to temptation. He has even deceived himself into beleiving that he can defeat God, when was defeated the moment Jesus died for us. God does not deceive, it is not in His nature.

You give too much credit to the devil. He can decieve, yes, but only after asking permission. Look at Job, for one. God allows Satan to acts. Now, the question is, why? There are plenty of reasons out there, but I think there's only one that makes sense. It's a tough pill to swallow, and a lot of Christians seem to simply refuse to believe it. It is that this whole world, as it is now, is full of debauchery and sin. God allows this to exist for a time so that his full glory and power may be made known to all in the end times. It says in the Bible that every knee shall bow, and that all shall be made humble to the Lord. In other words, sin exists only that it may be shown to be inferior to God. God allows sin some victories, but only to highlight His glory and power in the end times. Many Christians, many people in general, are uncomfortable with that because it seems like God is just playing some big cosmic game; to some extent, He is. But if you are a Christian, it shouldn't be a problem because you are under His protection. If you are nto a Christian, why should you care? If you don't believe God exists, what effect could an imaginary figure have on you? It's really as simple as that.