Atheist Hate

[1wdc]

Originally Posted by ShotgunSnipist

I agree ENTIRELY!
Why would this all powerful god who can do anything he wants instantly not just show his face? send a letter? PROVE he is real. All this blind faith is caused by instinct. If you don't believe the science explanation then there MUST be an all powerful god.

Of course the reason most Christians hate us is because we are different. It's EXACTLY like Racism, Sexism, Ageism, Etc!

Actually, it's not because your different (mostly). More than often I find that it's because they don't understand that there are 2 different kinds of atheism.
implicit and explicit.

Implicit people are generally nicer and don't like to or don't care to bring up religion. All there belief system is that there is no god

Explicit people feel an obligation to tell everybody that there is no god, they tend to be more like what Christians are to other people. They feel the way they see the world is the one true way and anyone who doesn't agree with them is in the dark, sound familiar?

Think Christians hate atheists? Try explaining to them that your a satanist -.-'

[Locke]

You know, Shotgun, you're not the first person to say this: I seem to recall that the pharisees said this to Jesus several times, and the mockers at Christ's death said this as well.

I have yet to see science prove anything about the past either: it can't. Science isn't perfect because people aren't perfect. Science the method will find workable solutions to current problems, but that's about it. People who follow it religiously aren't doing anyone any good.

Hmm...Well, being a Christian, I'd have to say the only people I hate would be...stupid people. There are sure a lot of them on both sides, and both are stupid for different reasons. The fact is though, not many people use their brains today. There are just as many blind followers of science/atheism as there are of any other religion.

[ChrisV1]

Originally Posted by Weesnaw

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miller-Urey_experiment

"Miller-Urey experiment (or Urey-Miller experiment) was an experiment that simulated hypothetical conditions present on the early Earth and tested for the occurrence of chemical evolution. Specifically, the experiment tested Oparin and Haldane's hypothesis that conditions on the primitive Earth favored chemical reactions that synthesized organic compounds from inorganic precursors."

"The experiment used water (H2O), methane (CH4), ammonia (NH3) and hydrogen (H2). The chemicals were all sealed inside a sterile array of glass tubes and flasks connected together in a loop, with one flask half-full of liquid water and another flask containing a pair of electrodes. The liquid water was heated to induce evaporation, sparks were fired between the electrodes to simulate lightning through the atmosphere and water vapor, and then the atmosphere was cooled again so that the water could condense and trickle back into the first flask in a continuous cycle.

At the end of one week of continuous operation Miller and Urey observed that as much as 10-15% of the carbon within the system was now in the form of organic compounds. Two percent of the carbon had formed amino acids, including 2-3 of the 22 that are used to make proteins in living cells, with glycine as the most abundant. Sugars, lipids, and some of the building blocks for nucleic acids were also formed. Nucleic acids (DNA, RNA) themselves were not formed. As observed in all consequent experiments, both left-handed (L) and right-handed (D) optical isomers were created in a racemic mixture."

Back onto topic, Atheist catch a lot of bull crap from those who claim to be religious but know hardly anything about the religion they say they follow. Which is alot around here.

That doesn't explain how any of the elements appeared in the first place...

By the way, once again the whole "religious people don't know anything about their religion" is not true and completely false. If you would go and actually spend the time to meet Religious followers instead of shunning their beliefs you would know that. I'm not trashing your beliefs but you can't accuse something which you do not know to be true.

[Weesnaw]

Originally Posted by 1wdc

A. is utter bull ****? Please name one ancient society that didn't have some form of religion.
B. I meant total eradication of religion from the planet, making atheism mainstream.
F. But if you look at the beginning of man when we were 'cave men', what sense of purpose did we have? Religion first gave us a sense that the world revolved around our existence and creation and then later used scare tactics (Hell) in order to make us step in line.

Of course humans don't need religion now for morals, we have had them implemented over our childhood and throughout our social evolution in medias that were influenced by religious morals but are not directly directed towards us through relligion.

A. Just because they all came up with a concept of gods doesn't mean that all of their advancements were due to religions.

B. Yeah I seriously doubt that it will ever happen too.

[Weesnaw]

Originally Posted by ChrisV1

That doesn't explain how any of the elements appeared in the first place...

By the way, once again the whole "religious people don't know anything about their religion" is not true and completely false. If you would go and actually spend the time to meet Religious followers instead of shunning their beliefs you would know that. I'm not trashing your beliefs but you can't accuse something which you do not know to be true.

Did I say all religious people don't know about their religion? No I didn't.

I said:

"Back onto topic, Atheist catch a lot of bull crap from those who claim to be religious but know hardly anything about the religion they say they follow. Which is alot around here."

Read through that slowly and carefully this time and maybe you'll get what I'm trying to say.

[Little Horn]

I will agree with some of the people on here that the hatred goes both way but for different reasons and I’ll try to explain these reasons and share with you all my views on the subject.

I will not pretend that there is not contempt within me for Christianity and other theistic religions. I despise the idea and the teachings of these religions and I loathe the way that man is still, to this day, taking advantage of the weak mindedness of people in the name of God. The foundation of the church (being the Roman Catholic church) was power and control. This is one reason that Martin Luther (the father of Protestantism not the civil rights leader) fought so hard to break away from the Church of England and ultimately, Catholicism.

To me, religion has always seemed like a façade to cover the greed of men and it will always remain that way as long as it is men that are talking to God and not the other way around. Even if I were to believe in a god, no man can tell me how I should believe and worship or attempt to understand and explain the motivations of God. This is all religion is. It’s corrupt and greed driven.

This is not to imply that EVERY church leader or EVERY religionist is greedy and corrupt rather that this was the motivation behind the formation of the church and one too many simple minds bought into it and perpetuated the beliefs in these ridiculous ideals. (i.e. See: Scientology)

The problem that Christians seem to have with Atheist is that we aim to impose our “godless” life style on all of America. They seem to think that we will not be satisfied until we’ve destroyed every reference to God in all corners of the Earth and that we want to destroy Christian morals and values. While I would not be sad to see religion destroyed, this is not my objective.

You see an Atheist on TV trying to have the words “Under God” removed from the Pledge of Allegiance. You see us fighting to have school led prayer removed from the public schools. You see us fighting to teach actual science in public schools in place of Creationism and other folklore and myths. The Christians see this and cry out in a fit of rage “Why are trying to destroy God?”

This is not our attempt at destroying God. This is simply us trying like hell to uphold and enforce the laws that are laid out in the Constitution of The United States. This country was founded on the idea of a Secular Government and should be as such. This is not our attempt at destroying God. Is there truly something wrong with upholding the Constitution?

These are the same reason that Atheists hate Christianity. A majority of Christians in this country have this crazy idea that we live in a “Christian Country”. True, we live in a Christian majority country, but this is not the same as being a Christian country. This is not a problem until you have politicians passing legislation in favor a particular religion’s teachings or ideals. What reasons other than religion is Gay marriage still not acceptable in this country? Why was stem cell research such a big no no a few years ago and sill the subject of some controversy? Why do we still have the words “In God We Trust” printed in the back of our currency? The Federal Reserve is a Government funded organization and therefore, constitutionally, there should be no reference to any God.

Typically, to Christians, it’s not good enough that they believe in God and that they follow the word of God. They have to make sure that everyone else is subject to the same bull****. They feel they have to teach my children about the kingdom of Heaven and the path to accepting Jesus Christ. I do not talk religion around my son (mine or any others by the way) and some how my son has a general idea of Christianity. He knows that Jesus was the son of God and the he died for our sins. How does my son know this? Because his teacher told him that evolution is a lie and the Jesus Christ was the correct answer. My son goes to a public school. Why, is his teacher telling him these things? Because it’s not good enough for her to believe, she has to bring small children into the wonderful world of Christ.

Christians see us trying “destroy God” and Atheist see Christians as trying to impose their beliefs on everyone. It is a two way street and I won’t pretend otherwise. I don't care if you believe or not. You can have your beliefs in your house and in your church but keep out of the Government. That all I ask.

I would like to jump a little off topic and respond to some of the posts on here…

Darth Camel:
I agree that religion and science can co-exist without contradicting each other. Just because science may be able to show evidence of human evolution does not mean that this was not God’s way of creating human beings. Just because we show that the Universe was created with a big bang does not mean that God did not cause it. On the other hand though none of this proves that God had anything to do with it or that he even exists.

Locke:
In your first post you mention that truth isn’t truth if it constantly changes. And that our views on the world are constantly changing. This same thing can be applied to religion. I urge you to read Young’s Bible. In the late 1800s Robert young did a literal, word by word translation of the Bible (Old and New Testaments) from the original Hebrew and Greek writings. This is significantly different from the translation that most people are familiar with like the King James and the NIV. Also compare those two Bibles (KJV and the NIV) to each other as well as the Protestant KJV and the Catholic KJV. These all have different interpretations and even different stories and Gospels. Also read the works of Thomas Aquinas and compare them to the writings of J. Kenneth Grider or Thomas Torrance.

Memphis Masenko: Christians do their fair share of insults. It’s not one sided.

Hostile: I like how you made it a point to separate extremists from the Christians but made it as much of a point to imply that all Atheists are extremists. Great job!

1wdc:
I would agree to point that Humans would not have made it this far without religion. But when does enough become enough? Is it still necessary today? Are we completely incapable of living in a civilized fashion without religion? Saying that religion doesn’t start wars religion does is a cop out. Yes if you want to get down to the nit and gritty, religion does not shoot a gun. However, would there still be conflict if there were not opposing views on a subject of such magnitude? It’s impossible to say one way or the other… I don’t think religion is needed to instill morals. There is a whole other thread in the religion section on this subject and I urge you to check it out.
By the way, in what capacity are you a “Satanist”?


Shotgun Snipist:
I think your argument is weak (about God showing his face). I think this is where a lot of Atheist really lose Christians. If God were to prove he existed this would destroy the idea of faith. There is a difference between faith and knowledge. The foundation of Judaism, Christianity and Islam is faith and without that you have nothing. This brings into question the idea of free will. If you KNEW God existed, you have no choice but to believe in him. Where is the free will in this? This is not why we were created. This is all relevant if you subscribe to the idea of God (which I clearly do not).

Alright. That’s all have to say right now. I’m not trying to start a war. These are my opinions and my views. I’m tired of bull**** arguments on here. If you want to respond do so intelligently. If you want to be belligerent, obnoxious or damning I’m not going to reply to you.

By the way, Atrocious, thanks for the props in that post against ChrisV1. I appreciate it.

[ShotgunSnipist]

Here's my main problem with religion,
If every single last person on this entire earth were christian, Then I would be too. But, obviously that's not true. There are Thousands and Thousands of different religions. Some closer then others. Why would that be would you say?

[Rocky32189]

Originally Posted by ChrisV1

I'm not trying to argue anything. But If you believe in Intelligent Design God is eternal and has always been here. In evolution's theory it started out with a single celled organsim, but how did it get there? The beginning of the life and the world defies scientific principal, which in turn can only be answerable by Intelligent Design or a superior being.

But just to try to stay on topic, do you guys believe that Atheists or Religious get treated worse in modern times?

I'm sorry but that answer completely disregards the issue. You cannot say that it is improbable that life came from nothing, and then say that God came from nothing, is eternal, etc. It can be argued from either side and cannot be used to justify either side.

To answer your other question, I believe that atheists get a much worse treatment, most likely since most people belong to some religion (most Christianity). It seems like a lot of people think you are a bad person if you are an atheist. I find that lots of people connect atheists to anti-god people and satanists. This is what I've come across in my everyday life.

EDIT: I have some serious questions for the Christians on this board part moved to here

[Little Horn]

Originally Posted by Rocky32189

I have some serious questions for the Christians on this board:

Why do you think that there is no tangible proof of God? If he exists, why doesn't he make himself known to us?


Why do you choose to believe some parts of the bible and disregard others? For instance, the bible says that the earth is the center of the universe, when we obviously know this is wrong. What's to stop everything else from being wrong?

Do you believe that humans were the first organisms on earth? That is what the bible tells us, but fossil records show that significant life existed hundreds of millions of years before humans walked the earth.

Do you believe in a virgin birth? An understanding of science and the reproductive cycle tells us this is impossible, yet we hear about it every year at Christmas time.

Why does the bible tell us that good atheists go to hell but bad Christians (as long as they repent) go to heaven. Why would an all loving god follow such rules when there is no tangible proof of his existence?

All very good questions but extremely off topic... Perhaps this should have been a new thread entirely.

Can a mod fix this?

[Gow616]

Originally Posted by floorpuncher

All very good questions but extremely off topic... Perhaps this should have been a new thread entirely.

Can a mod fix this?

Fixed and created.

[Little Horn]

Originally Posted by Gow616

Fixed and created.

Thanks!!

[Locke]

Originally Posted by floorpuncher

I will not pretend that there is not contempt within me for Christianity and other theistic religions. I despise the idea and the teachings of these religions and I loathe the way that man is still, to this day, taking advantage of the weak mindedness of people in the name of God. The foundation of the church (being the Roman Catholic church) was power and control. This is one reason that Martin Luther (the father of Protestantism not the civil rights leader) fought so hard to break away from the Church of England and ultimately, Catholicism.

To me, religion has always seemed like a façade to cover the greed of men and it will always remain that way as long as it is men that are talking to God and not the other way around. Even if I were to believe in a god, no man can tell me how I should believe and worship or attempt to understand and explain the motivations of God. This is all religion is. It’s corrupt and greed driven.

This is not to imply that EVERY church leader or EVERY religionist is greedy and corrupt rather that this was the motivation behind the formation of the church and one too many simple minds bought into it and perpetuated the beliefs in these ridiculous ideals. (i.e. See: Scientology)

The problem that Christians seem to have with Atheist is that we aim to impose our “godless” life style on all of America. They seem to think that we will not be satisfied until we’ve destroyed every reference to God in all corners of the Earth and that we want to destroy Christian morals and values. While I would not be sad to see religion destroyed, this is not my objective.

You see an Atheist on TV trying to have the words “Under God” removed from the Pledge of Allegiance. You see us fighting to have school led prayer removed from the public schools. You see us fighting to teach actual science in public schools in place of Creationism and other folklore and myths. The Christians see this and cry out in a fit of rage “Why are trying to destroy God?”

This is not our attempt at destroying God. This is simply us trying like hell to uphold and enforce the laws that are laid out in the Constitution of The United States. This country was founded on the idea of a Secular Government and should be as such. This is not our attempt at destroying God. Is there truly something wrong with upholding the Constitution?

These are the same reason that Atheists hate Christianity. A majority of Christians in this country have this crazy idea that we live in a “Christian Country”. True, we live in a Christian majority country, but this is not the same as being a Christian country. This is not a problem until you have politicians passing legislation in favor a particular religion’s teachings or ideals. What reasons other than religion is Gay marriage still not acceptable in this country? Why was stem cell research such a big no no a few years ago and sill the subject of some controversy? Why do we still have the words “In God We Trust” printed in the back of our currency? The Federal Reserve is a Government funded organization and therefore, constitutionally, there should be no reference to any God.

Typically, to Christians, it’s not good enough that they believe in God and that they follow the word of God. They have to make sure that everyone else is subject to the same bull****. They feel they have to teach my children about the kingdom of Heaven and the path to accepting Jesus Christ. I do not talk religion around my son (mine or any others by the way) and some how my son has a general idea of Christianity. He knows that Jesus was the son of God and the he died for our sins. How does my son know this? Because his teacher told him that evolution is a lie and the Jesus Christ was the correct answer. My son goes to a public school. Why, is his teacher telling him these things? Because it’s not good enough for her to believe, she has to bring small children into the wonderful world of Christ.

Christians see us trying “destroy God” and Atheist see Christians as trying to impose their beliefs on everyone. It is a two way street and I won’t pretend otherwise. I don't care if you believe or not. You can have your beliefs in your house and in your church but keep out of the Government. That all I ask.

I would like to jump a little off topic and respond to some of the posts on here…

Darth Camel:
I agree that religion and science can co-exist without contradicting each other. Just because science may be able to show evidence of human evolution does not mean that this was not God’s way of creating human beings. Just because we show that the Universe was created with a big bang does not mean that God did not cause it. On the other hand though none of this proves that God had anything to do with it or that he even exists.

Locke:
In your first post you mention that truth isn’t truth if it constantly changes. And that our views on the world are constantly changing. This same thing can be applied to religion. I urge you to read Young’s Bible. In the late 1800s Robert young did a literal, word by word translation of the Bible (Old and New Testaments) from the original Hebrew and Greek writings. This is significantly different from the translation that most people are familiar with like the King James and the NIV. Also compare those two Bibles (KJV and the NIV) to each other as well as the Protestant KJV and the Catholic KJV. These all have different interpretations and even different stories and Gospels. Also read the works of Thomas Aquinas and compare them to the writings of J. Kenneth Grider or Thomas Torrance.

Well, I won't argue with the fact the people do really like to screw over other people, but in your opinion, and from your study, would you say that Christianity inherently is a tool of control, or does it have some other purpose?

Church of England? Luther was German. I'm not sure, but I think that the Anglican Church came along later. Luther sought to correct what he saw as problems within his district, not to challenge church doctrine. It was only after he saw that the entire church had become corrupt that he decided to do any sort of "rebellion." He firmly believed in the authority of Scritpure, which does not advocate rebellion except in the most dire of circumstances.

Do you have any proof to claim that the church started from greed or corruption? I've never heard of such a thing. Fun fact about Scientology though: they don't register as a church in every country. In one country, they are registered as a lending organization. I was even considering entering a contest for science fiction writers, until I learned that I had to buy their publication in order to enter, back by who other than the Church of Scientology. But I digress.

Ah, the old "Church and State" debate, eh? Tell me, where in the Constitution does it ever say there is to be no reference to God in the government? It says there is to be no state religion, and by correlation it is likely that the government cannot advocate any religion, but how does "Under God" violate that? It's a part of our country's heritage, nothing more, nothing less.

I would actually debate you majority claim here. A majority of Americans may claim be Christians, but it is doubtful that so many follow the word of God. In fact, the book unChristian really sheds some light on how little actually Christianity there is to go around in this country.

Gay marriage isn't really marriage unless you redefine the word marriage. So long as a fetus is alive, it's wrong to kill it, Christian or not. Granted, Christians and atheists may take opposite sides on the issue, but there's nothing barring an athesit from coming to the same conclusion.

Well, don't forget, Christianity does advocate conversions. In the charge of the disciples, Christ says that we are to go forth and make believers of all nations. It's a part of the exercise of our faith to try to convince others. It's not like we're the only ones either. Though I would admit that a public school should not be teaching Christianity, or anything else of the sort, as truth. However, don't forget that atheism isn't a lack of religion either; it's as much a religion as any other. It just considers man an animal or God, depending on which flavor of atheism you subscribe to.

Well, the Bible has something to say about that: unless you happen to take Genesis VERY loosely, God created. It may have been literal days, most likely not, but he was the sole author of creation.

It is true that translations can be a pain. However, I don't think that the differences between translations could be so drastic as to completely change the direction of the faith. I guess I'll have to look for myself and see.

Too damn tired to contrive a logical response at the moment(been switching between this post and a hundred different other things for hours now), but maybe I'll think of something original to say later....blagh...

[Little Horn]

Originally Posted by Locke

Well, I won't argue with the fact the people do really like to screw over other people, but in your opinion, and from your study, would you say that Christianity inherently is a tool of control, or does it have some other purpose?

Church of England? Luther was German. I'm not sure, but I think that the Anglican Church came along later. Luther sought to correct what he saw as problems within his district, not to challenge church doctrine. It was only after he saw that the entire church had become corrupt that he decided to do any sort of "rebellion." He firmly believed in the authority of Scritpure, which does not advocate rebellion except in the most dire of circumstances.

Do you have any proof to claim that the church started from greed or corruption? I've never heard of such a thing. Fun fact about Scientology though: they don't register as a church in every country. In one country, they are registered as a lending organization. I was even considering entering a contest for science fiction writers, until I learned that I had to buy their publication in order to enter, back by who other than the Church of Scientology. But I digress.

Ah, the old "Church and State" debate, eh? Tell me, where in the Constitution does it ever say there is to be no reference to God in the government? It says there is to be no state religion, and by correlation it is likely that the government cannot advocate any religion, but how does "Under God" violate that? It's a part of our country's heritage, nothing more, nothing less.

I would actually debate you majority claim here. A majority of Americans may claim be Christians, but it is doubtful that so many follow the word of God. In fact, the book unChristian really sheds some light on how little actually Christianity there is to go around in this country.

Gay marriage isn't really marriage unless you redefine the word marriage. So long as a fetus is alive, it's wrong to kill it, Christian or not. Granted, Christians and atheists may take opposite sides on the issue, but there's nothing barring an athesit from coming to the same conclusion.

Well, don't forget, Christianity does advocate conversions. In the charge of the disciples, Christ says that we are to go forth and make believers of all nations. It's a part of the exercise of our faith to try to convince others. It's not like we're the only ones either. Though I would admit that a public school should not be teaching Christianity, or anything else of the sort, as truth. However, don't forget that atheism isn't a lack of religion either; it's as much a religion as any other. It just considers man an animal or God, depending on which flavor of atheism you subscribe to.

Well, the Bible has something to say about that: unless you happen to take Genesis VERY loosely, God created. It may have been literal days, most likely not, but he was the sole author of creation.

It is true that translations can be a pain. However, I don't think that the differences between translations could be so drastic as to completely change the direction of the faith. I guess I'll have to look for myself and see.

Too damn tired to contrive a logical response at the moment(been switching between this post and a hundred different other things for hours now), but maybe I'll think of something original to say later....blagh...

Ouch... good catch on Martin Luther. You are absolutley right about the Church of England... I knew that wasn't the case and I put it in there for some reason... thanks. But i think you misread me or I didn't go into enough detail. He broke away from the Church because of the corruption and greed that was prevalent within it. I never claimed he was challenging church doctrine.

I do believe that the Catholic Church used Christianity as a tool of control and I still feel that they do. I feel that a lot (not all) of churches and religious organizations use it as a way to manipulate people and control them.

As far as Church and State are concerned... It is stated quite explicitly in the bill of rights

Congress shall make no law respecting and establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof

It says, plain as day, that it is illegal to pass laws that would benefit a particular religion. I fail to see how that allows "God" into anything that is part of the United States Government.

It's funny that you should mention "tradition" when talking about the Pledge of Allegiance and a Secular Government. The words "Under God" were not introduced into the Pledge until the 1950s. So it's only been a "tradition" for about 50 years or so. Secondly, show me where in the Constitution it mentions God aside from the dating where they say "in the year of our lord..." (This was a common dating method at the time.) The thing is that God is never mentioned in the whole constitution. Neither is Lord (aside from the dating) or Father or Almighty or anything else referencing a God. The founding fathers understood that for there to be absolute freedom and to be abolish government sactioned religious persecution they had to create a Government that was entirely secular and unbiased.

According to Merriam Webster.

Marriage:
1 a (1): the state of being united to a person of the opposite sex as husband or wife in a consensual and contractual relationship recognized by law
(2): the state of being united to a person of the same sex in a relationship like that of a traditional marriage <same-sex marriage> b: the mutual relation of married persons : wedlock c: the institution whereby individuals are joined in a marriage2: an act of marrying or the rite by which the married status is effected; especially : the wedding ceremony and attendant festivities or formalities3: an intimate or close union <the marriage of painting and poetry


So what you really meant to say was that we need to change the way we think of marriage... Regardless, you still eluded my question entirely.

You don't need to collect stem cells from a developed fetus. Typically they are collected from a fetus in the Blastocsyt stage which is only four or five days following conception. I will not argue the killing of a fetus being horrible, because it is horrible. But at this point there is not any brain activity and this organism consist of about 150 - 200 cells.

I laugh when Atheism is called a religion. You're splitting hairs here. I suppose the way you brush your teeth is a religion as well.

I strongly encourage you to compare these writings that I pointed out. I think that you would be surprised with the differences and how little things can change the meaning of an entire verse.