The only way to heaven is through Christ.

Matt17e · 05-31-2008, 02:09 PM

"And this is the way to have eternal life - to know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, the one you sent to earth" (John 17:3)

This all made sense, Jesus just died for our sins... so we'll go around and spread the word to other parts of the land. But did God forget about the America's? What do Christian beleive happen to the countless number of natives for the 1500 years?

Marshillboy · 05-31-2008, 02:58 PM

I don't think I entirely understand your question...

Bear holding a shark · 05-31-2008, 03:29 PM

Yeah if you could rephrase that, that'd be swell.

lpxxfaintxx · 05-31-2008, 03:36 PM

What he's trying to say:

"Jesus was born in Bethlehem, a middle Eastern part of the earth, and only those living on that land mass heard of Jesus and his teachings. What about the Native Americans before the European colonization? Surely, they have never heard about Jesus for over 1500 years. So why did God leave them out?"

Trogdor · 05-31-2008, 06:43 PM

Quote:

So why did God leave them out?

God might not of, just wait and see

Little Horn · 06-01-2008, 07:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trogdor

God might not of, just wait and see

For The Rapture?

jake128 · 06-05-2008, 10:49 PM

if the question is what happens at death
i think that those who have had NO possible way of hearing god's word will be judged on character and not their belief in Jesus.

Little Horn · 06-06-2008, 07:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jake128

if the question is what happens at death
i think that those who have had NO possible way of hearing god's word will be judged on character and not their belief in Jesus.

You're wrong. Jesus states explicitly in the Bible that the only way to heaven is through him (John 14:6). It doesn't matter if you've heard the word of God or not. If you do not accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior then yo will go to hell. (Wow... I sound just like a Televangelist)

Bear holding a shark · 06-06-2008, 07:52 AM

It's the job of Christians to spread the gospel. It says in the Bible that when the gospel has been spread to all reaches of the world, then the rapture will occur.

It's amazing how many tribes and such groups there are that no one knows about. There was an article in the news about a tribe they found in Brasil or somewhere that had never been seen before.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Little Horn

Wow... I sound just like a Televangelist

As long as you don't start asking us for money

BigMakk · 06-19-2008, 11:48 AM

I still don't understand how he died for the human race if people are still sinning and were sinning before... anyone want to explain (I'm not religious and too lazy to read the bible, but I'd still like to know)

THanks

Dark616 · 06-19-2008, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigMakk

I still don't understand how he died for the human race if people are still sinning and were sinning before... anyone want to explain (I'm not religious and too lazy to read the bible, but I'd still like to know)

THanks

Its so those sins are forgiven.

lacrosse_man16 · 06-19-2008, 12:37 PM

Of course the only way to heaven is through Christ. If the people who believe in this man whom says their is a "heaven" then of course nothing else will get you there.

BigMakk · 06-19-2008, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark616

Its so those sins are forgiven.

So everyone that lived around Jesus's time got into heaven for free?

I would petition that : P

Dark616 · 06-19-2008, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigMakk

So everyone that lived around Jesus's time got into heaven for free?

I would petition that : P

no. those who accept him have their sins forgiven.

Locke · 06-19-2008, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigMakk

I still don't understand how he died for the human race if people are still sinning and were sinning before... anyone want to explain (I'm not religious and too lazy to read the bible, but I'd still like to know)

THanks

Well, the way it goes is:

-All men(and by men I mean all humans) inherit sin by the actions of Adam and Eve
-Because we are born with that sin, we are doomed to that fate no matter what we do for ourselves.
-Jesus died as the perfect living sacrifice
-Because Jesus was both man and God, and because he was absolutely sinless, he could die for each and every person on Earth

Now, this last one has a few more tidbits to it. It took a flawless sacrifice, be it a sheep, dove, goat, etc. in order to remove sin under the Law. However, they were not human, not made in God's own image. Their sacrifice was only temporary. By contrast, Jesus was God incarnate, so he had both divine power, and thus perfection, and had lived a human life with human struggles. So, his sacrifice was capable of not only applying to us, but being permanent. This applies to all people of any time who have followed God. Just because Abraham never knew the man Jesus, he still is saved because he followed God, one and the same with Jesus. Those who personally followed Jesus get that same benefit. And any who follow Jesus from that time on also are covered by the atoning power of Christ's blood.

BigMakk · 06-21-2008, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Locke

Well, the way it goes is:

-All men(and by men I mean all humans) inherit sin by the actions of Adam and Eve
-Because we are born with that sin, we are doomed to that fate no matter what we do for ourselves.
-Jesus died as the perfect living sacrifice
-Because Jesus was both man and God, and because he was absolutely sinless, he could die for each and every person on Earth

Now, this last one has a few more tidbits to it. It took a flawless sacrifice, be it a sheep, dove, goat, etc. in order to remove sin under the Law. However, they were not human, not made in God's own image. Their sacrifice was only temporary. By contrast, Jesus was God incarnate, so he had both divine power, and thus perfection, and had lived a human life with human struggles. So, his sacrifice was capable of not only applying to us, but being permanent. This applies to all people of any time who have followed God. Just because Abraham never knew the man Jesus, he still is saved because he followed God, one and the same with Jesus. Those who personally followed Jesus get that same benefit. And any who follow Jesus from that time on also are covered by the atoning power of Christ's blood.

So before Jesus, people had to sacrifice other life for their own? Kinda selfish.

Locke · 06-21-2008, 08:45 PM

Actually, it was rather selfless. Image for a moment, you lived in ancient Palestine. Now, it wasn't perhaps the desert it is now(the Bible makes it clear that it was the "land of milk and honey" and the "land of promise"), but life still had challenges. I'm sure that most people would like to have the best of their livestock at their disposal. Instead, they had to give their best animals to God. Even if their best wasn't always the best, they were to give the best they could offer. That takes at least some degree of selflessness. For instance, in the story of Cain and Able, God was displeased with Cain not because he gave agricultural products instead of live animals, but because his offerings were not the best he could offer. Able's, however, were. Cain was the selfish one in this picture. And the fate of these animals was really no different than that of animals raised for slaughter today; infact, we kill far more animals than they could ever dream to, and I'm sure that animal activists would consider these animals to be in far better conditions than many of the animals in our industrialized world are today. So, really, it's not as if these were cruel people looking to take the lives of others for their own good. These were people who were willing to give anything and sometimes everything for God. Abraham would have killed his son because God asked it, until God sent a messenger(an angel) to reveal to him that it was only a test of his faith and dedication, and even provided a proper animal for sacrifice.

HB99 · 06-22-2008, 12:11 AM

Religion is all about BS...organized superstition...

According to the Bible Joshua was told by God to kill everyone and everything in the land. Excuse me, but these were people who did nothing against the people who left Egypt from the Exodus. Just like the Europeans who came to this country...they screwed the people already living here...attacked unprovoked just because God told them to do so. And this is really what God wanted, right? I doubt it.

As for Jesus stating anything in the Bible is BS too.

What we know today as Christianity really is a misnomer. It really should be called "Paulism"...it's what Paul "thought" Christ wanted. Christ never intended to start his own religion...if he had he probably would have been quoted on that too...

As far as the Bible saying that the only way to heaven is through him (John 14:6) only proves that ALL persons living before him didn't go to Heaven either.
Where's the logic in that?

BigMakk · 06-22-2008, 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HB99

As far as the Bible saying that the only way to heaven is through him (John 14:6) only proves that ALL persons living before him didn't go to Heaven either.
Where's the logic in that?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Locke

Actually, it was rather selfless. Image for a moment, you lived in ancient Palestine. Now, it wasn't perhaps the desert it is n

05-31-2008, 02:09 PM	#1 (permalink)
Matt17e Jr. Zuner Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 33 Reputation: 12 $zB: 30 Donate	The only way to heaven is through Christ. "And this is the way to have eternal life - to know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, the one you sent to earth" (John 17:3) This all made sense, Jesus just died for our sins... so we'll go around and spread the word to other parts of the land. But did God forget about the America's? What do Christian beleive happen to the countless number of natives for the 1500 years?

05-31-2008, 03:29 PM	#3 (permalink)
Bear holding a shark Zune Freak Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: 15 miles south of Nowhere, USA Posts: 1,237 Reputation: 107 $zB: 778 Donate	Yeah if you could rephrase that, that'd be swell. __________________ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

05-31-2008, 03:36 PM	#4 (permalink)
lpxxfaintxx Administrator Ultimate Zuner Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Irvine, CA Posts: 5,778 Reputation: 182 $zB: 1998 Donate	What he's trying to say: "Jesus was born in Bethlehem, a middle Eastern part of the earth, and only those living on that land mass heard of Jesus and his teachings. What about the Native Americans before the European colonization? Surely, they have never heard about Jesus for over 1500 years. So why did God leave them out?" __________________ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

06-21-2008, 08:45 PM	#17 (permalink)
Locke Jr. Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Vermont Posts: 419 Reputation: 69 $zB: 347 Donate	Actually, it was rather selfless. Image for a moment, you lived in ancient Palestine. Now, it wasn't perhaps the desert it is now(the Bible makes it clear that it was the "land of milk and honey" and the "land of promise"), but life still had challenges. I'm sure that most people would like to have the best of their livestock at their disposal. Instead, they had to give their best animals to God. Even if their best wasn't always the best, they were to give the best they could offer. That takes at least some degree of selflessness. For instance, in the story of Cain and Able, God was displeased with Cain not because he gave agricultural products instead of live animals, but because his offerings were not the best he could offer. Able's, however, were. Cain was the selfish one in this picture. And the fate of these animals was really no different than that of animals raised for slaughter today; infact, we kill far more animals than they could ever dream to, and I'm sure that animal activists would consider these animals to be in far better conditions than many of the animals in our industrialized world are today. So, really, it's not as if these were cruel people looking to take the lives of others for their own good. These were people who were willing to give anything and sometimes everything for God. Abraham would have killed his son because God asked it, until God sent a messenger(an angel) to reveal to him that it was only a test of his faith and dedication, and even provided a proper animal for sacrifice. __________________ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

06-22-2008, 12:11 AM	#18 (permalink)
HB99 Squirt Join Date: May 2008 Location: IL Posts: 20 Reputation: 12 $zB: 24 Donate	Religion is all about BS...organized superstition... According to the Bible Joshua was told by God to kill everyone and everything in the land. Excuse me, but these were people who did nothing against the people who left Egypt from the Exodus. Just like the Europeans who came to this country...they screwed the people already living here...attacked unprovoked just because God told them to do so. And this is really what God wanted, right? I doubt it. As for Jesus stating anything in the Bible is BS too. What we know today as Christianity really is a misnomer. It really should be called "Paulism"...it's what Paul "thought" Christ wanted. Christ never intended to start his own religion...if he had he probably would have been quoted on that too... As far as the Bible saying that the only way to heaven is through him (John 14:6) only proves that ALL persons living before him didn't go to Heaven either. Where's the logic in that? __________________ HB99 aka homebrewer_99 @ Homebrewtalk.com Last edited by HB99 : 06-22-2008 at 12:15 AM.

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06-05-2008, 10:49 PM	#7 (permalink)
jake128 Zewbie Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 8 Reputation: 10 $zB: 7 Donate	if the question is what happens at death i think that those who have had NO possible way of hearing god's word will be judged on character and not their belief in Jesus.

06-19-2008, 11:48 AM	#10 (permalink)
BigMakk Jr. Zuner Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Even I don't know Posts: 47 Reputation: 10 $zB: 41 Donate	I still don't understand how he died for the human race if people are still sinning and were sinning before... anyone want to explain (I'm not religious and too lazy to read the bible, but I'd still like to know) THanks

06-19-2008, 12:37 PM	#12 (permalink)
lacrosse_man16 Aims to Please Retired Staff Experienced Zuner Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 153 Reputation: 53 $zB: 140 Donate Awards Showcase Total Awards: 1	Of course the only way to heaven is through Christ. If the people who believe in this man whom says their is a "heaven" then of course nothing else will get you there.

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