Intelligent Design Being Taught in Public School

[HipHopScribe]

I say a giant bunny who lives inside Jupiter s**t out the Earth one day, 2 million years ago, humans and all. That's my version of intelligent design, it's just as scientifically credible as yours, should we teach that theory in school too? Should I get some crackpot scientists to bad mouth evolution and say mine makes more sense, then can we teach it?

[ChrisV1]

Originally Posted by floorpuncher

First of all, how can you truly understand the world around you, if you do not at least attempt to understand how you came into existence?

Possession and exorcism? People claiming to see God?

Check it out;

Holy **** guys I was possessed by the devil and this priest exorcised the devil from me and then I saw God in a tortilla.

This is what you call evidence? What you just presented to me was nothing more than someone saying they were possessed. I could say I'm an 38 year old Chinese woman but that doesn't make it true. That is no more evidence than the words that are written in the bible.

You could say that, but I've known and met close people that have been affected by god and have seen God, and so have I. Are you really saying that millions of people are lying about these things as well as seeing spirits and being possessed? That is just ignorant in itself.

As for the beating Heart, no that does not count. I am talking about putting together a deceased body with working body parts. Why will it not work? Because a human body has life, and a spirit. Can Evolution explain life and spirit? No it cant. Can religion? Certainly.

And its not completely out of the question that Religion and Evolution can coincide with each other. People have been adapting to their surroundings for thousands of years, but I do not think that people can evolute to the extent of what you're saying.

[HipHopScribe]

Originally Posted by ChrisV1

You could say that, but I've known and met close people that have been affected by god and have seen God, and so have I. Are you really saying that millions of people are lying about these things as well as seeing spirits and being possessed? That is just ignorant in itself.

You can believe something completely and be wrong, they don't have to be lying, they could just be wrong. The point is there is no scientifically credible evidence of these phenomena, and they can easily be explained scientifically by mental illness and other psychological explanations.

As for the beating Heart, no that does not count. I am talking about putting together a deceased body with working body parts. Why will it not work? Because a human body has life, and a spirit. Can Evolution explain life and spirit? No it cant. Can religion? Certainly.

That won't work because, other than the complexities of correctly assembling an entire body, once parts die they begin to decay, this can be arrested by various methods for some organs, but the brain would be useless in regulating bodily functions in very little time. You also have to consider the electrical energy produced by the body, that would have to be replicated and restored, which I don't think science is capable of yet.

And its not completely out of the question that Religion and Evolution can coincide with each other. People have been adapting to their surroundings for thousands of years, but I do not think that people can evolute to the extent of what you're saying.

We're talking about what should be taught in science classes, and at this point evolution is the only theory that meets the established scientific criteria to be a credible explanation. Belief is simply not a sufficient reason to deny or promote a certain theory, not when we're talking about science, you need evidence, which evolution has plenty of.

[Hostile]

Also, if you honestly believe something so much then your mind will make you see those things, and have dreams about them and the like. I'm not discrediting the people who have had encounters with God, I'm just playing devils advocate.

[mrminty]

Originally Posted by ChrisV1

You could say that, but I've known and met close people that have been affected by god and have seen God, and so have I. Are you really saying that millions of people are lying about these things as well as seeing spirits and being possessed? That is just ignorant in itself.

As for the beating Heart, no that does not count. I am talking about putting together a deceased body with working body parts. Why will it not work? Because a human body has life, and a spirit. Can Evolution explain life and spirit? No it cant. Can religion? Certainly.

And its not completely out of the question that Religion and Evolution can coincide with each other. People have been adapting to their surroundings for thousands of years, but I do not think that people can evolute to the extent of what you're saying.

(I saw that there was a second page after my first response, so I went back and redid my post to better explain what I felt. Original is quoted below.)
Those people are not lying about what they saw. Once something like God has been so deeply ingrained in your mind, it's impossible not to attribute it to the fantastic. What is ignorant in itself is not wanting to see past the blinders placed on you by your religion, being content in ignorance.

Also, what is with you and Frankenstein? We can't put a human together because there's no way to get the body parts. We can't grow something as complex as a brain in a dish ...yet. And using cadaver parts is pointless, because loss of oxygen flow will kill the cells, rendering the organ useless. It's not that we can't do it, it's just that science has not progressed enough. That would be like saying that humans will never colonize Mars, just because we haven't colonized Mars yet.
Anyways, I think that just like we evolved into walking upright, we will evolve beyond the need for pointless religion once science shows.

One last thing, I think you need a refresher on what evolution actually is, rather than the crap you've probably been fed from day one.
Here's an example. There are two mice families. All of the mice in one family are brown with white spots. All of the mice in family two are solid brown. Every offspring family one produces is spotted white. Every offspring family 2 produces is solid brown. The problem is, the white spots make the mice visible to other predators, so more of family 1 gets eaten. Family 2 blends in, and is safe. Soon, all of Family 1 is gone, and now Family 2 will flourish, because there is twice as much food and shelter now. Evolution is all about survival of organisms better suited for the environment, and those organisms will produce other organisms with the same trait. Evolution has nothing to do with souls or life, or any of the things you're blaming it for.

[Hostile]

Originally Posted by mrminty

Hey buddy, you're right, evolution isn't a fact. It's a theory. An extremely well supported and researched theory, but a theory. Just like gravity.
I think it's ironic how you can ask why us crazy rationalists can rely on carbon dating and fossils, when you apparently sane theists rely mostly on spoken word and a book that has been entirely rewritten by medieval kings.

Couldn't say it better myself.

[Atrocious]

Okay first off, if anything. This should be taught: http://www.venganza.org/about/open-letter/

[Little Horn]

Originally Posted by ChrisV1

You could say that, but I've known and met close people that have been affected by god and have seen God, and so have I. Are you really saying that millions of people are lying about these things as well as seeing spirits and being possessed? That is just ignorant in itself.

As for the beating Heart, no that does not count. I am talking about putting together a deceased body with working body parts. Why will it not work? Because a human body has life, and a spirit. Can Evolution explain life and spirit? No it cant. Can religion? Certainly.

And its not completely out of the question that Religion and Evolution can coincide with each other. People have been adapting to their surroundings for thousands of years, but I do not think that people can evolute to the extent of what you're saying.

Hip Hop Scribe is right. Is really has nothing to do with the spirit. It has to do with decomposition which sets in immediately following death.

I'm not saying that these people are lying. But have you ever realized that followers of every religion on the face of the earth says that they've seen their God as well? Muslims see see Allah, Buddhists see Buddah and on and on. This is enough to limit the credibility of people who say they see God to nothing more than works of fiction and wishful thinking.

As far as evolution explaining the spirit... why should it have to? The idea of your spirit or soul is just as unsupported. There is no evidence to support the idea of sentient spirits so why should we bother explaining something that holds no credibility? It's like saying "can science explain Hell?" Why? There's nothing to study or examine to come to a solid conclusion.

The questions you need to ask yourself is can religion explain why millions of people around the world suffer and die everyday? Can religion explain why women are raped and children are abused?

Aside from attributing it to "evil" it can not. Science understands these things. And while science may not be able to explain everything yet, there will be a time when it will. Hell, just 100 years ago we knew nothing about bacteria and microscopic organisms. Look where we are now. We understand them so well that we are able to manipulate these things on a genetic level.

[ChrisV1]

Originally Posted by HipHopScribe

We're talking about what should be taught in science classes, and at this point evolution is the only theory that meets the established scientific criteria to be a credible explanation. Belief is simply not a sufficient reason to deny or promote a certain theory, not when we're talking about science, you need evidence, which evolution has plenty of.

The point is, Evolution if a belief, whether you believe it or not it is still a belief. Some of you guys are talking like it is a confirmed fact, which is incorrect. Sure you can say it has 'evidence' but it is not very substantial, and it will never be. You don't have to have facts to support everything. Such as facts cannot support the beginning of the world, because it isn't logical that something never had a beginning or end. Visit a church, attend an Exorcism and you will see what I mean. People will never surely know how anything will begin or end without faith.

As for the Education part, People that have deep religious values deserve the right to not have Evolution lectured to their CHILDREN. Same goes with people that believe in evolution and don't want religion lecture. Keep it out of the school system or order it into appropriate elective classes.

[Little Horn]

Originally Posted by ChrisV1

The point is, Evolution if a belief, whether you believe it or not it is still a belief. Some of you guys are talking like it is a confirmed fact, which is incorrect. Sure you can say it has 'evidence' but it is not very substantial, and it will never be. You don't have to have facts to support everything. Such as facts cannot support the beginning of the world, because it isn't logical that something never had a beginning or end. Visit a church, attend an Exorcism and you will see what I mean. People will never surely know how anything will begin or end without faith.

As for the Education part, People that have deep religious values deserve the right to not have Evolution lectured to their CHILDREN. Same goes with people that believe in evolution. Keep it out of the school system.

So DNA evidence linking Homo Sapien to Neanderthal is not very substantial? Wow!

Are you familiar with the Salem Witch Trials? Are you aware of how they started? You should read into a it little and then come talk to me about exorcisms. BTW, I go to a Church almost every Sunday and I read the Bible almost every day. What's your excuse?

[Marshillboy]

Originally Posted by Dragod

Currently, evolution is the most well supported theory we have. Why are new species not popping up everywhere? Why is it that we can see gradual changes over generations?

Really?? WOW!!! Hook a brother up with some proof, because last time I checked, fraudulent discoveries aside, there are NO proven intermediary species discovered to date.

[HipHopScribe]

Originally Posted by ChrisV1

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The point is, Evolution if a belief, whether you believe it or not it is still a belief. Some of you guys are talking like it is a confirmed fact, which is incorrect. Sure you can say it has 'evidence' but it is not very substantial, and it will never be. You don't have to have facts to support everything. Such as facts cannot support the beginning of the world, because it isn't logical that something never had a beginning or end. Visit a church, attend an Exorcism and you will see what I mean. People will never surely know how anything will begin or end without faith.

You can't possibly know what evidence there will be, as for existing evidence, even if there was only a little, not very substantial evidence, that would be more than there is for intelligent design. Actually, science is the only way people can know anything, faith is only believing you know something. There is an incredible standard of proof for something to reach the level of scientific law. In science, there will always be more to learn, and there will be reworking and expansion of existing theory, so of course the theory of evolution isn't gonna explain everything, of course it's gonna have some areas for greater study, unlike religion it doesn't proclaim that it has all the answers, and they're final and concrete. That's what allows not only science to grow, but religion to grow as well, as we can see many things which the church would not accept are now acceptable to everyone, because torturing people and murdering them for "blasphemy", in the name of religious beliefs couldn't hold back science forever, some teachers wanting to teach intelligent design or parents not wanting their kinds to learn about evolution won't either.

As for the Education part, People that have deep religious values deserve the right to not have Evolution lectured to their CHILDREN. Same goes with people that believe in evolution and don't want religion lecture. Keep it out of the school system or order it into appropriate elective classes.

If they have deep religious values and wish for their children's education to reflect that, they can enroll them in private schools. Our public school system is necessarily separated from religious concerns like that by our legal separation of church and state. Obviously, when reasonable, the system should respect the religious beliefs of everyone, but it is not reasonable to ignore widely accepted science or teach non-scientific theories in science classes, just because some people don't believe in them.

[mrminty]

Originally Posted by Marshillboy

Really?? WOW!!! Hook a brother up with some proof, because last time I checked, fraudulent discoveries aside, there are NO proven intermediary species discovered to date.

Funny, I googled "intermediary species" to try and figure out what you were talking about, and it seems that the term is only used by theists trying to find a semblance of credibility by saying something big and scientific sounding.
In fact, the only results for "intermediary species" that weren't written by pseudo-scientists trying to insert credibility into a topic with no grounding in logical thought, were about chemistry and minerals.
Hey, hook a brother up with some proof of God.

[Little Horn]

Originally Posted by Marshillboy

Really?? WOW!!! Hook a brother up with some proof, because last time I checked, fraudulent discoveries aside, there are NO proven intermediary species discovered to date.

Read about The Lapedo Child

[ChrisV1]

Originally Posted by floorpuncher

So DNA evidence linking Homo Sapien to Neanderthal is not very substantial? Wow!

Are you familiar with the Salem Witch Trials? Are you aware of how they started? You should read into a it little and then come talk to me about exorcisms. BTW, I go to a Church almost every Sunday and I read the Bible almost every day. What's your excuse?

Sorry to break from this Serious Discussion but Why don't you stop playing internet Hardass and telling me what to do. I'm just voicing my opinion no reason to be mean about it.

By the way I'd like to see any of your evidence.

Originally Posted by HipHopScribe

If they have deep religious values and wish for their children's education to reflect that, they can enroll them in private schools. Our public school system is necessarily separated from religious concerns like that by our legal separation of church and state. Obviously, when reasonable, the system should respect the religious beliefs of everyone, but it is not reasonable to ignore widely accepted science or teach non-scientific theories in science classes, just because some people don't believe in them.

.

Some parents cannot afford that.

[Little Horn]

Originally Posted by ChrisV1

Sorry to break from this Serious Discussion but Why don't you stop playing internet Hardass and telling me what to do. I'm just voicing my opinion no reason to be mean about it.

By the way I'd like to see any of your evidence.

No body is being mean dude. I was simply stating the fact that I make it a point to educate myself in as many areas as I can. You seem to know very little about evolution, yet you come in here trying to make a point and do nothing but back yourself further into a corner. I'm not trying to piss you off, I'm just making a point dude so please calm down.

I've given you a small list of evidence to start you out already. Research the appendix and it's uses and the fact that there are a rather large number of people who are born without it. i also posted in a response to Marshillboy about the Lapedo child. This should be a good starting point.

Now, I ask the same thing from you in support of intelligent design.

[mrminty]

Originally Posted by ChrisV1

Sorry to break from this Serious Discussion but Why don't you stop playing internet Hardass and telling me what to do. I'm just voicing my opinion no reason to be mean about it.

By the way I'd like to see any of your evidence.
.

Some parents cannot afford that.

So if the parents can't afford private school, why can't they just warp their children's minds at home? I don't mean homeschooling, I mean on the weekend or after school every parent can sit his or her child down and tell them how people who believe in evolution are evil and going to hell, and we were created 6 thousand years ago by a giant invisible omnipotent Santa Claus. Just keep it the hell out of our schools.

[ChrisV1]

Originally Posted by floorpuncher

No body is being mean dude. I was simply stating the fact that I make it a point to educate myself in as many areas as I can. You seem to know very little about evolution, yet you come in here trying to make a point and do nothing but back yourself further into a corner. I'm not trying to piss you off, I'm just making a point dude so please calm down.

I've given you a small list of evidence to start you out already. Research the appendix and it's uses and the fact that there are a rather large number of people who are born without it. i also posted in a response to Marshillboy about the Lapedo child. This should be a good starting point.

Now, I ask the same thing from you in support of intelligent design.

You just don't understand. You can't have evidence, you must have faith. Appendix's, Fossils, Wisdom teeth evidence mean nothing to me. Ho do you not know that the creator could have placed fossils? Or that wisdom teeth have no purpose today nor the Appendix? You don't. You have a list of things scientist's have done and researched, not you. You have a list of theories that scientist's have compiled, not you. You don't know if the scientists credibility is even valuable. It is just something for you to grab on to because you thin