A question for a christian.

[Atrocious]

Originally Posted by mr.handsomeman

what do you mean you "believe out of fear"? I don't understand.

the fear of going to hell, living a life of my own would get me sent to hell. You have to follow the bible and how it tells you to live, because being a Christian isn't just saying it, you have to live a life where you sacrifice a lot of things, I didn't want to give up being a teenager just to follow what some book tells me to do.

[Weesnaw]

Originally Posted by mr.handsomeman

what do you mean you "believe out of fear"? I don't understand.

Aside from hell, fear of being persecuted for not believing. Ever hear of the Spanish Inquisition? No? How about the Salem Witch Trials?

[Little Horn]

Originally Posted by Weesnaw

Aside from hell, fear of being persecuted for not believing. Ever hear of the Spanish Inquisition? No? How about the Salem Witch Trials?

Indeed. And as much as we are led to believe that in this country we are free of persecution from the religious fundamentalists this is so far off from the truth. While we may not have to be afraid of being tortured or burned at the stake any more there is still a very real fear for us non-believers. You never know who you're going to offend just by saying, "I'm an atheist". That is a statement that could effect my career, my child's education and any other number of things.

[Bear holding a shark]

Originally Posted by Weesnaw

Aside from hell, fear of being persecuted for not believing. Ever hear of the Spanish Inquisition? No? How about the Salem Witch Trials?

This is a poor agrument as it can also be turned the other way. Ever hear about Nero, or the Holocaust? Maybe you've heard of Columbine. These and multiple other cases prove examples of people standing up for their beliefs (Christian, Judeo-Christian beliefs) and in turn losing their lives.

As much as I'd like to believe it, no religion is perfect, and never will be. People will always manipulate things to their desire. It's human nature.

I sincerely belive the best way to share religious views is to follow them yourself and just lead by example. Shoving things down people's throats only results in choking.

[Miss Contagious]

im not exactly a christian but im not atheist. im kinda in between but i still pray when i feel i need guidance. most of the time it makes me feel better about whatever im worried about. i do believe in the possiblity of God & would love to actually have a God REALLY exist but im skepitical. I mostly just think prayer is a time to reflect on what is going on and asking for help from the "higher" power but in the end it usually leads me to a clearer version of the answer i already knew before.

i dont think anyone should pray if they feel they dont need it. it'd be a waste of time.

[Atrocious]

Originally Posted by Saline

This is a poor agrument as it can also be turned the other way. Ever hear about Nero, or the Holocaust? Maybe you've heard of Columbine. These and multiple other cases prove examples of people standing up for their beliefs (Christian, Judeo-Christian beliefs) and in turn losing their lives.

As much as I'd like to believe it, no religion is perfect, and never will be. People will always manipulate things to their desire. It's human nature.

I sincerely belive the best way to share religious views is to follow them yourself and just lead by example. Shoving things down people's throats only results in choking.

Okay, in the Holocaust, the Jews weren't killed because they stood up for their beliefs, they were killed because of what they believed in, it doesn't matter if they denied it or stood up for it, they were killed either way.
And at Columbine, they didn't specifically pick out the people who were Christians and kill them, just because a majority of the students were Christians doesn't mean that was their motive to go kill. I know they asked that girl if she was a Christian before they killed her, but that doesn't mean they killed at other 12 people just because they were a Christian also.

Also, if no religion is perfect like you said, then why believe in an imperfection that is suppose to save your life and soul. For someone to believe in something imperfect like you said, would just create a false hope for them and make them live a life that would have been wasted on nothing.

[Weesnaw]

Originally Posted by Saline

This is a poor agrument as it can also be turned the other way. Ever hear about Nero, or the Holocaust? Maybe you've heard of Columbine. These and multiple other cases prove examples of people standing up for their beliefs (Christian, Judeo-Christian beliefs) and in turn losing their lives.

As much as I'd like to believe it, no religion is perfect, and never will be. People will always manipulate things to their desire. It's human nature.

I sincerely belive the best way to share religious views is to follow them yourself and just lead by example. Shoving things down people's throats only results in choking.

Either killed by someone using religion as an excuse to kill or because of standing up because you believe in whatever religion, the source is of the deaths is religion.

[Little Horn]

Originally Posted by Saline

This is a poor agrument as it can also be turned the other way. Ever hear about Nero, or the Holocaust? Maybe you've heard of Columbine. These and multiple other cases prove examples of people standing up for their beliefs (Christian, Judeo-Christian beliefs) and in turn losing their lives.

As much as I'd like to believe it, no religion is perfect, and never will be. People will always manipulate things to their desire. It's human nature.

I sincerely belive the best way to share religious views is to follow them yourself and just lead by example. Shoving things down people's throats only results in choking.

You're right, no religion is perfect. I think that may be a prerequisite to being a legitimate religion.

All jokes aside though, you're right. All shoving your religion down someone's throat is going to do is piss them off.

[Bear holding a shark]

Originally Posted by Atrocious

Okay, in the Holocaust, the Jews weren't killed because they stood up for their beliefs, they were killed because of what they believed in, it doesn't matter if they denied it or stood up for it, they were killed either way.
And at Columbine, they didn't specifically pick out the people who were Christians and kill them, just because a majority of the students were Christians doesn't mean that was their motive to go kill. I know they asked that girl if she was a Christian before they killed her, but that doesn't mean they killed at other 12 people just because they were a Christian also.

Also, if no religion is perfect like you said, then why believe in an imperfection that is suppose to save your life and soul. For someone to believe in something imperfect like you said, would just create a false hope for them and make them live a life that would have been wasted on nothing.

They called out Christan students at Columbine and when they stood up, they shot them. You can look this up or just take my word for it. And religions are imperfect. I don't belive in a religeon, but the faith of Christianity, the personal connection between me and my savior. The rest is just excess, and not neccessary.

Really though, this thread isn't for this discussion and I doubt the guy with the prayer question is finding any help from our bantering.

Originally Posted by floorpuncher

You're right, no religion is perfect. I think that may be a prerequisite to being a legitimate religion..

That seems to be a reoccurring theme =|

[mr.handsomeman]

Originally Posted by Atrocious

the fear of going to hell, living a life of my own would get me sent to hell. You have to follow the bible and how it tells you to live, because being a Christian isn't just saying it, you have to live a life where you sacrifice a lot of things, I didn't want to give up being a teenager just to follow what some book tells me to do.

who says that you have to give up being a teenager? is it a requirement to drink and smoke and curse in order to be a teenager? I don't think so, and if this isn't what you're talking about, then tell me what you speak of.

[Atrocious]

Originally Posted by mr.handsomeman

who says that you have to give up being a teenager? is it a requirement to drink and smoke and curse in order to be a teenager? I don't think so, and if this isn't what you're talking about, then tell me what you speak of.

Well, based on personal experiences, sex and what you mentioned, I never said it was "in order to be a teenager". You said that. I meant in general, such as everything like: arguing with parents, lying, stealing, respecting authoritive figures. There's a lot of things, small and large, it doesn't matter because "they're all the same in God's eyes", so if you lie it's the same as killing someone, how retarded is that?
A lot of people know what they do is wrong anyways, and then they go repent and do it again, what's the point? I can't live doing that, if I enjoy something I'm going to do it. I don't want to be told I'm wrong based on religion, which as someone mentioned is imperfect, if it was morally wrong, then that would be a different story. I can't do things that I feel is wrong so I don't do those things.

[mr.handsomeman]

Originally Posted by Atrocious

Well, based on personal experiences, sex and what you mentioned, I never said it was "in order to be a teenager". You said that. I meant in general, such as everything like: arguing with parents, lying, stealing, respecting authoritive figures. There's a lot of things, small and large, it doesn't matter because "they're all the same in God's eyes", so if you lie it's the same as killing someone, how retarded is that?
A lot of people know what they do is wrong anyways, and then they go repent and do it again, what's the point? I can't live doing that, if I enjoy something I'm going to do it. I don't want to be told I'm wrong based on religion, which as someone mentioned is imperfect, if it was morally wrong, then that would be a different story. I can't do things that I feel is wrong so I don't do those things.

obviously people sin, repent, and go and do it again, and although it's not right to do at all, it is okay, you're not going to hell forever. But when you sin and then ask for forgiveness and don't really mean it, then that's a bad thing. As long as you always keep trying with a real heart and a real want, you're always going to be forgiven. God will throw your sins in the deepest part of the oceans.

and the reason that sins are weighted equally is so that people won't have the excuse of "oh well, at least I'm not doing this..." it's not like that. a sin is a sin.

Well, based on personal experiences, sex and what you mentioned, I never said it was "in order to be a teenager". You said that. I meant in general, such as everything like: arguing with parents, lying, stealing, respecting authoritive figures.

I mean, come on, I disrespect my parents A LOT! I mean, I don't like the way things are going down, so I don't listen. I mean, I TRY to, I really do, and that's really what makes all the difference, is that I TRY. if I didn't try, I would be in trouble in God's eyes.

[Atrocious]

Originally Posted by mr.handsomeman

obviously people sin, repent, and go and do it again, and although it's not right to do at all, it is okay, you're not going to hell forever. But when you sin and then ask for forgiveness and don't really mean it, then that's a bad thing. As long as you always keep trying with a real heart and a real want, you're always going to be forgiven. God will throw your sins in the deepest part of the oceans.

and the reason that sins are weighted equally is so that people won't have the excuse of "oh well, at least I'm not doing this..." it's not like that. a sin is a sin.

Okay, if you are sentenced to hell. You'd probably be there for an eternity like it says in the Bible.
God forgives your sins, it never says he forgets them.

Originally Posted by mr.handsomeman

I mean, come on, I disrespect my parents A LOT! I mean, I don't like the way things are going down, so I don't listen. I mean, I TRY to, I really do, and that's really what makes all the difference, is that I TRY. if I didn't try, I would be in trouble in God's eyes.

If you disrespect your parents a lot, and you ask for forgiveness. Then do it again, what's the point of asking for forgiveness if you aren't willing to change? Your parents are there for you to set a role, no matter how bad or good they are or you think they are, you should listen to them and accept whatever they say.

What's the point in believing if you aren't willing to comprise? Obviously, if you fight with your parents and you aren't willing to just accept what they say, whether you like it or not, you can't say that you "love" God with everything because you aren't willing to follow what he says. It's even in the 10 Commandments, it's what #5? "Honour Thy Father and Thy Mother"

[Saidas]

What is prayer? To most people it is petitioning for something they want. Prayer. like meditation, can be thought of as "tuning in" to God or your higher self, often with a specific intention.

This "tuning in" is into something that is so vast, complex, and mysterious, that it is far beyond comprehension. One does not expect a child to be able to comprehend complex thought, so what makes us think that we can even begin to comprehend what God is or how to communicate with "Him" using our minds?

So this is where prayer comes in. It is a way for us to "tune in" without the mind. If it is in the realm of the mind, then it isn't really prayer.

If one is not "hearing" anything while praying, it is because one is not sufficiently "dialed in" (like a radio signal) and this comes with much practice and change in oneself and not just bowing your head praying to win before a football game...or battle. Most people who say they "hear" God's or Jesus voice don't; its their imagination. Most people are not adept enough to know the difference between their own thoughts and feelings and communication with God.

So its with a lot of practice and effort than one really prays. Look at how hard and long people train their bodies for sports or minds for education. How many apply even a small fraction of that effort or time to communicate with God? Do we think that communicating with God should require less effort than sports training or education? If one thinks that by merely reading a book or going to a church or temple is enough to know God, then why do we have so many problems with so many people doing so?

[Little Horn]

Originally Posted by Saidas

What is prayer? To most people it is petitioning for something they want. Prayer. like meditation, can be thought of as "tuning in" to God or your higher self, often with a specific intention.

This "tuning in" is into something that is so vast, complex, and mysterious, that it is far beyond comprehension. One does not expect a child to be able to comprehend complex thought, so what makes us think that we can even begin to comprehend what God is or how to communicate with "Him" using our minds?

So this is where prayer comes in. It is a way for us to "tune in" without the mind. If it is in the realm of the mind, then it isn't really prayer.

If one is not "hearing" anything while praying, it is because one is not sufficiently "dialed in" (like a radio signal) and this comes with much practice and change in oneself and not just bowing your head praying to win before a football game...or battle. Most people who say they "hear" God's or Jesus voice don't; its their imagination. Most people are not adept enough to know the difference between their own thoughts and feelings and communication with God.

So its with a lot of practice and effort than one really prays. Look at how hard and long people train their bodies for sports or minds for education. How many apply even a small fraction of that effort or time to communicate with God? Do we think that communicating with God should require less effort than sports training or education? If one thinks that by merely reading a book or going to a church or temple is enough to know God, then why do we have so many problems with so many people doing so?

You typed a lot of words and yet, said nothing. Prayer isn't something that takes practice. Truly, one shouldn't even have to "pray" at all because God knows exactly how anyone feels without you falling to your knees and thanking him for another day. We've covered this already.

Here again is a perfect example of a Christian telling other Christians how prayer works and what it means to be truly righteous. It's a bunch of crap. This is the same reason the Catholic Church has been so powerful for so long. They convinced people that they knew how to communicate with God and without them any effort to communicate directly was futile. It's this kind of ignorance and arrogance that make religion dangerous and disgusting.