A Few Questions

[Little Horn]

Originally Posted by mr.handsomeman

No, not great.

AMAZING!!!!

that is such an amazing story, almost like a comeback movie that you see now a days, like a guy is having the worst wekk ever, just everything is hapenning to him, and everyone is telling him to just kill himself, but he doesn't he sticks it through it all, and in the end, he lands a great job, a beautiful and wonderful wife, and become more wealthy than ever before, is that not a good story? like Pursuit of Happyness! That movie is the perfect example!!!! Wasn't that a good story?

i understand what you're saying and in a way I can see why other people would think so as well. I get the over all moral of the story and as a story it's great. But to me, set in reality I think it's a horrible thing for a "loving" God to do regardless of the rewards that Job recieved afterwards.

You can't kill my cat then buy me flowers and expect that to make everything alright. you still killed my cat!

I've never understood why God was so willing to give into the temptations of the Devil. Why did god feel he had to prove Job's love for him to the Devil? I think it's a little messed up that God would be willing to put his favorite human being through that much torment and misery just to settle a bet with Satan.

[Napoleon Iven Quinnly]

angels do have free will......also sin was around before satan, it was found in him becuase God blessed him so much he began to think he was better than God, it was his choice

[Saline]

Originally Posted by floorpuncher

I've never understood why God was so willing to give into the temptations of the Devil. Why did god feel he had to prove Job's love for him to the Devil? I think it's a little messed up that God would be willing to put his favorite human being through that much torment and misery just to settle a bet with Satan.

It wasn't a matter of God doubting Job's faith, it was to set an example for others, as well as to get Job to fully realize how much he had to thank God for. The purpose of this story being in the Bible is to let us realize that even in the worst despair, we still have things to thank God for.

Floorpuncher, you always talk about opening your mind to other religions and studying skeptically, but I must say you're still very close-minded. You appear to have your mind set before you even hear the story.

[Little Horn]

Originally Posted by Saline

It wasn't a matter of God doubting Job's faith, it was to set an example for others, as well as to get Job to fully realize how much he had to thank God for. The purpose of this story being in the Bible is to let us realize that even in the worst despair, we still have things to thank God for.

Floorpuncher, you always talk about opening your mind to other religions and studying skeptically, but I must say you're still very close-minded. You appear to have your mind set before you even hear the story.

I do study with an open mind. But this and other stories have never made sense to me. I understand the moral behind the story, I just think it's a poor way of demonstrating the point.

Regardless this still doesn't explain why God succumbed to the temptations of the Devil.

[Saline]

He didn't succumb to them. He proved to Satan (and future generations of people) a lesson. If God gave into Satan right there, then why didn't Christ do the same later on in the New Testament when Satan was offering him the world?

[Little Horn]

Originally Posted by Saline

He didn't succumb to them. He proved to Satan (and future generations of people) a lesson. If God gave into Satan right there, then why didn't Christ do the same later on in the New Testament when Satan was offering him the world?

But why did God have to prove anything to Satan? So we could all understand the awesomeness of God? I find it funny that God has to devise these elaborate plans to make a point.

Why did Christ have to die for our sins? Couldn't God have just forgiven us all instead? Why did God have to flood the earth? Couldn't he have just snapped us out of existence the same way he snapped us into existence?

This is the result of true skepticism. I am not one to accept what it lied in front of me without asking questions...

[Napoleon Iven Quinnly]

the reason he had to die for our sins is that the wages of sin is death, the rerason he flooded the earth was to give humanity a second chance, and yes he could have poofed us but what kind of loving compassionate God would throw our world around like a rag doll, remember as has been stated he gave us a free will

[mr.handsomeman]

Originally Posted by floorpuncher

I do study with an open mind. But this and other stories have never made sense to me. I understand the moral behind the story, I just think it's a poor way of demonstrating the point.

Regardless this still doesn't explain why God succumbed to the temptations of the Devil.

what other way do you know would prove the point that God was trying to prove?

and when you talk about being "succumbed to the temptations of the Devil" what exactly are you talking about?

[Little Horn]

Originally Posted by mr.handsomeman

what other way do you know would prove the point that God was trying to prove?

and when you talk about being "succumbed to the temptations of the Devil" what exactly are you talking about?

He's God. He can just make people understand unless that's too straightforward.

As far as God giving into the temptations of Satan...

Job 2:1-7

[mr.handsomeman]

Originally Posted by floorpuncher

He's God. He can just make people understand unless that's too straightforward.

As far as God giving into the temptations of Satan...

Job 2:1-7

okay, well he didn't really give into any temptations, it's just that Satan was like "if you treaded him bad he would curse you" and God was like, "no he won't" and so Satan put boils on him, and Job didn't do anything, he continued to praise God.

And God would never really just "make people understand" that's where the free will thing comes in, you realize what you realize on your own.

[Little Horn]

Originally Posted by mr.handsomeman

okay, well he didn't really give into any temptations, it's just that Satan was like "if you treaded him bad he would curse you" and God was like, "no he won't" and so Satan put boils on him, and Job didn't do anything, he continued to praise God.

Ah, God gave the Devil permission to afflict Job with the understanding that Satan could not kill Job. The devil was indeed the one who harmed Job however, God allowed him to do it to prove a point.

[mr.handsomeman]

Originally Posted by floorpuncher

Ah, God gave the Devil permission to afflict Job with the understanding that Satan could not kill Job. The devil was indeed the one who harmed Job however, God allowed him to do it to prove a point.

but God wasn't just proving a point to the Devil, he wasn't like "this is to shut the devil up and that's it!" no, he did it because it was going to be recorded in the Bible, and God wanted a point to be proven to everybody, and he wanted everybody to have something to look to when they're going through hard times,

When people are going through rough times, some might go to the story of Job and say "wow, this guy went through a hell of a lot, and he STILL praised God, why can't i?"

God proved a point to Satan, to you, to me, to everybody!

[Little Horn]

I don't see it this way. You look at it as a good thing but I look at it as a snapshot of the true nature of God... Cruel and merciless.

[mr.handsomeman]

Originally Posted by floorpuncher

I don't see it this way. You look at it as a good thing but I look at it as a snapshot of the true nature of God... Cruel and merciless.

well then that's every religion for you right there right? perspective? and point of view? you can believe whatever the hell you want to believe based of how you view things, basically making all of this debate and conversation pointless....

[Little Horn]

Originally Posted by mr.handsomeman

well then that's every religion for you right there right? perspective? and point of view? you can believe whatever the hell you want to believe based of how you view things, basically making all of this debate and conversation pointless....

You're right and wrong... you're right about perspective, but you're dead wrong about the pointlessness of this discussion. A discussion doesn't have to be an attempt to change another person point of view. Every conversation that you have with a person is another lesson in life that you should walk away with. Even if you don't agree with my point of view come the end of the conversation, you understand how other people see the world.

[mr.handsomeman]

Originally Posted by floorpuncher

You're right and wrong... you're right about perspective, but you're dead wrong about the pointlessness of this discussion. A discussion doesn't have to be an attempt to change another person point of view. Every conversation that you have with a person is another lesson in life that you should walk away with. Even if you don't agree with my point of view come the end of the conversation, you understand how other people see the world.

i see, well I am definitely coming out of this conversation knowing more than i did know, about your religion and what other people think. But i mean, is the story of Job all that you're using to prove that God was merciless?

[Techy Dude]

i think our parents would teach us and we would think that was the only right way and then believe everyone else is wrong

[mr.handsomeman]

Originally Posted by Techy Dude

i think our parents would teach us and we would think that was the only right way and then believe everyone else is wrong

I think this has been established before, that we grow up with a certain mindset because that's all we know, and that we never challenge what we believe because we're stubborn and don't think that we could ever be wrong.