If I was to tell you that I am a Satanist...

[Trogdor]

[MemphisMasenko]

Originally Posted by floorpuncher

What would your initial reaction be?
What is the first thing that comes to mind?

whatever.

Originally Posted by floorpuncher

Good point...

Let me elaborate.... what does the term Satanist or Satanism mean to you? What do you think a Satanist is? What beliefs do you think he holds?

idk.....people who worship the devil and participate in witchcraft and magic stuff like that. To me everybody and their mama know that.

[BobtheWalrus]

I'd first think that something traumatic happened in your life

Then, I'd just get used to the fact

People have their own ways

[Little Horn]

Originally Posted by Saline

I would like further detail, that's why I asked =D

And free-will can exist with an omniscient God. He KNOWS the decisions you'll make, however he gives YOU the free-will to decide. Doesn't seem that difficult. Takes as much faith to believe as it does not to believe.

Also, how is being all-powerful and all-knowing a contradiction?

I didn't say that being all-knowing and all-powerful was contradictive. what I meant was that those aspects of a God are contradictory to the idea of free will.

If he knows the decisions that I WILL make how is that free will?

For the sake of argument we'll say that I am going to hell. This has already been decided by God long before I was even born. At some point in my life i will be faced with a "decision" and I will inevitably choose the "wrong choice" and this is what sentences me to damnation. It has already been decided that this is the decision I will make because know that this is the reason that I am damned. Therefore, I really don't have control over my fate in the afterlife.

Morality.

Like I said before I get this one more than just about any other question when on the subject of religion. I find this frustrating. I think that if you honestly believe that without religion we would be nothing more than a highly intelligent species of murderers, rapists, thieves and pirates you lack faith in your fellow man. Are you telling me that if it wasn't for the idea of damnation that you would kill relentlessly and rape just for the hell of it? Chances are that if you have any shred of common sense you would answer no.

The problem that many people have is they have this idea that if there were no rules to follow that society would crumble and fall and this just isn't the case in my opinion. I think that the biggest thing that separates us from other animals species is our ability to empathize with one another. Anyone with any common sense could tell you that you can be much more productive when you work together to achieve a common goal. We don't need religion to tell us this. That is all a society is. Anyone with common sense could tell you that murdering and raping and thieving is counter productive the idea of achieving goals and would therefore make it unacceptable within any organized society. Once again, we don't need religion to tell us this. I take insult to the idea that humanity would be nothing more than barbarians without God.

They've done studies (and I don't have the source at my disposal now and I apologize but I will try to find the name of the documentary) that suggest that chimpanzee and other species of primate actually form small societies. Every chimp in this group has a particular dUty that they are expected to carry out to chi(m)p in (sorry, feeble attempt at humor) for the common good. But more than that these chimps also establish a form of government that consist of laws or guidelines. When I watched this documentary they showed how they actually enforce these rules by dishing out punishments for infractions such as stealing food from the groups supply etc...

To me this is a perfect example of how there can be morals and rules that are not influenced by religion.

I also want to point out the fact that I am not trying to slam anyone for their beliefs. I'm simply trying to have a debate on the subject if I've offended someone, this was not my intent.

[Saline]

If I knew that there were going to be no consequences for my actions, what motivation would I have to keep from doing those things? Why would I give a crap?

I would not be motivated to do anything If I knew this life was it, and afterwards I just became dust.
________
I understand you're not trying to slam =p I'm not trying too either. As long as make you think, and decide for yourself I'm totally content. Thanks for making me think, btw

[Darren]

Originally Posted by floorpuncher

What would your initial reaction be?
What is the first thing that comes to mind?

I wouldn't mind, and the first thing that comes to mind for me is the book Angels & Demons by Dan Brown

[Little Horn]

Originally Posted by Saline

If I knew that there were going to be no consequences for my actions, what motivation would I have to keep from doing those things? Why would I give a crap?

I would not be motivated to do anything If I knew this life was it, and afterwards I just became dust.
________
I understand you're not trying to slam =p I'm not trying too either. As long as make you think, and decide for yourself I'm totally content. Thanks for making me think, btw

I don't understand how you came to this conclusion. I would think that if you knew that this life was it that you would be more motivated to do more things because you realize that time is short. The way I see it is that most Christians/Jews/Muslims feel that they really do have all eternity. On top of that you (by you I'm speaking generally) feel that the afterlife in heaven will be so much more pleasant and fantastic than the time the relatively short time you spend on earth. I would think that one would get bored with "the now" and grow impatient at the idea of paradise having to wait much in the same way you might get impatient on a Friday afternoon waiting for the weekend to begin.

This is the way that I think at least. I realize that there is nothing after this and that I must make the most of my existence.

I do have one question that no one has ever been able to give me a satisfactory answer to... If you honestly believe that there is a heaven and this is where you are going after you die, why do people fight so hard to stay alive? even the most devout believers in God will fight tooth and nail to preserve their life. Why is this?

I am happy to make you think and I enjoy it when people can present me with intelligent argument. i don't have a problem with people who believe in God and this is where I feel that I differ from a lot of satanists. I realize that religion is a crutch and some people need that. But what I can't stand is people who think they are religious but actually know very little about the religion that they claim to follow and the religion that they use to judge or damn other people for what they believe. I also DESPISE the religionists that feel that because "this issue" or "that issue" is a "sin", EVERYONE else in the world should to be subjected to laws a reform that prohibit this or that in accordance with the laws of God or Allah or whoever. I also have a problem with ignorance that some denominations and churches perpetuate. We still have people in this day and age the still believe that the Earth was created less than 6,000 years ago, that dinosaurs never existed and that fossils were placed about by God as test of faith. Our president, good ol' G.W., believes this very thing. These ideas are then passed onto their children as FACT and the cycle continues. It's nuts!

[Darren]

Originally Posted by floorpuncher

I don't understand how you came to this conclusion. I would think that if you knew that this life was it that you would be more motivated to do more things because you realize that time is short. The way I see it is that most Christians/Jews/Muslims feel that they really do have all eternity. On top of that you (by you I'm speaking generally) feel that the afterlife in heaven will be so much more pleasant and fantastic than the time the relatively short time you spend on earth. I would think that one would get bored with "the now" and grow impatient at the idea of paradise having to wait much in the same way you might get impatient on a Friday afternoon waiting for the weekend to begin.

This is the way that I think at least. I realize that there is nothing after this and that I must make the most of my existence.

I do have one question that no one has ever been able to give me a satisfactory answer to... If you honestly believe that there is a heaven and this is where you are going after you die, why do people fight so hard to stay alive? even the most devout believers in God will fight tooth and nail to preserve their life. Why is this?

I am happy to make you think and I enjoy it when people can present me with intelligent argument. i don't have a problem with people who believe in God and this is where I feel that I differ from a lot of satanists. I realize that religion is a crutch and some people need that. But what I can't stand is people who think they are religious but actually know very little about the religion that they claim to follow and the religion that they use to judge or damn other people for what they believe. I also DESPISE the religionists that feel that because "this issue" or "that issue" is a "sin", EVERYONE else in the world should to be subjected to laws a reform that prohibit this or that in accordance with the laws of God or Allah or whoever. I also have a problem with ignorance that some denominations and churches perpetuate. We still have people in this day and age the still believe that the Earth was created less than 6,000 years ago, that dinosaurs never existed and that fossils were placed about by God as test of faith. Our president, good ol' G.W., believes this very thing. These ideas are then passed onto their children as FACT and the cycle continues. It's nuts!

Life is nuts, and people are afraid of death, but in their belief death is the only passage in which they will go to God and his kingdom...

[Trogdor]

By accepting one religion you must reject all others
IE: this thread can't advance any further without making a giant loop

[Rissa]

Originally Posted by Trogdor

By accepting one religion you must reject all others
IE: this thread can't advance any further without making a giant loop

i disagree with that statement.
you can participate in a religion and still have RESPECT for others, therefore not "rejecting" them.

some people think that just because you practice one certain religion that you are obligated to hate others or disagree with theirs. that is not necessarily true. ALL religions have something in common.

[Little Horn]

Originally Posted by Trogdor

By accepting one religion you must reject all others
IE: this thread can't advance any further without making a giant loop

I do agree with you and my point was not to convert anyone to my way of thinking and i seriously doubt that was anyone else's point that has posted here. The reason that I started it and the reason I think most people have participated here is that I wanted to force people to think or to look at things in a way that they may not have seen them before. I wanted to cast off the illusion that all Satanist worship the Devil and eat children and that we are normal, productive members of society who are capable of emotions other than hatred and spite. I hope that I've done that.

[endlessinsanity]

I'd be like- Wait, What?-and leave on your Satanist way. I tend to let people practice their own religions in peace.

[Gow616]

Originally Posted by floorpuncher

We do not view ourselves as God or deities and by claiming this it is obvious that you have misinterpreted what Lavey says. Basically it's not that we view ourselves as GODS but rather we understand that the highest creation his human beings. If one feels the need to worship an "idol" of some sort why not idolize the person who means the most to you and who is most qualified and deserving of your complete and total devotion other than yourself? It's not that we satanists view ourselves of supreme beings with supernatural powers and to incenuate otherwise is just ridiculous on a level that is staggering.

LaVey's brand of Satanism follows that path but when you say Satanist, I think of the original use of the word that was given to people who practiced this deity in the flesh worship / atheism. As a friend put it best, "Every person in the Satanic view, is a god unto themselves and an eternal being of equal potential power to that of any existing entity".

The reason for amusement that by following LaVey's teaching as means of guidance it has in turn created the very thing they sought to get rid of...a religion.

Though I could be mixing up a Luciferist and Satanist...often does happen.

Do what thou will shall be the whole of the law. Thelemic (aka Crowley), I know but it fits the point I am trying to make.

After all, I am Discordian and everything is Dogma, which is why I give out free Discordian Catma with every five tons of flax.

Did you think people here would persecute you for your beliefs? Even if they are a little bit controversial, I would like to think not, but I do think many would have preconceived notions of what you do or practice. That is just human nature especially when you have to take into account that most were taught these things at a very young age forming a basis of an idea of what Satanism is and how it is practiced.

I, personally, only ask of every individual to seek their own faith or lack of it, to find the answer to what they want as a driving force for their life. Reason being is, I can't give anyone answers when my semi-deity is the goddess of Chaos, Eris, or whatever thing seems to work as a object of worship to break habits down. It is not for everyone or anyone in that matter but it is for me and that is enough.

In the end, it is all about who we are and what defines us not what others believe.

[Little Horn]

Originally Posted by Gow

LaVey's brand of Satanism follows that path but when you say Satanist, I think of the original use of the word that was given to people who practiced this deity in the flesh worship / atheism. As a friend put it best, "Every person in the Satanic view, is a god unto themselves and an eternal being of equal potential power to that of any existing entity".

The reason for amusement that by following LaVey's teaching as means of guidance it has in turn created the very thing they sought to get rid of...a religion.

Though I could be mixing up a Luciferist and Satanist...often does happen.

Do what thou will shall be the whole of the law. Thelemic (aka Crowley), I know but it fits the point I am trying to make.

After all, I am Discordian and everything is Dogma, which is why I give out free Discordian Catma with every five tons of flax.

Did you think people here would persecute you for your beliefs? Even if they are a little bit controversial, I would like to think not, but I do think many would have preconceived notions of what you do or practice. That is just human nature especially when you have to take into account that most were taught these things at a very young age forming a basis of an idea of what Satanism is and how it is practiced.

I, personally, only ask of every individual to seek their own faith or lack of it, to find the answer to what they want as a driving force for their life. Reason being is, I can't give anyone answers when my semi-deity is the goddess of Chaos, Eris, or whatever thing seems to work as a object of worship to break habits down. It is not for everyone or anyone in that matter but it is for me and that is enough.

In the end, it is all about who we are and what defines us not what others believe.

Very True... I had hoped that people here would be understanding and I think that they have been. I agree that it's not about what others believe and I could honestly care less what anyone thinks about me or my beliefs. As I stated before I simply wanted to challenge people's perception is all. I think that it's good to have your perception challenged as it forces people to think... something that a lot of people forget to do in this day and age. People are so willing to listen what society, religion, Hollywood or the music industry tell them and accept this as fact without bothering to look for the answers themselves.

I don't understand how you can consider Satanism a religion. I understand that there is a "church" and that we have "priests" and other "clergy" members but I think the point that often gets overlooked is that these were all put in place in an attempt mock the Christian religion. The same reason that LaVey named his church The Church of Satan and titled his first book The Satanic Bible. It was a subtle form of blaspheming, the whole "if they want a Devil, I'll give them a Devil!" idea.

[Saline]

"I do have one question that no one has ever been able to give me a satisfactory answer to... If you honestly believe that there is a heaven and this is where you are going after you die, why do people fight so hard to stay alive? even the most devout believers in God will fight tooth and nail to preserve their life. Why is this?"

A satisfactory answer may not be the "right" answer to the person responding. The people you asked this obviously have different views then you. But here's my answer, satisfctory or not:

I believe those people are lacking faith, even though they outwardly appear devout, inside they're as insecure as anyone else. I myself don't think I'm afraid to die, but that doesn't mean I'm going to j-walk infront of buses or take a bath with my toaster. I'm still going to respect my life and know that while I'm here God has a purpose for me. Additionally, I hear stories all the time of people not being afraid to die, people who say they're overcome with peace before they die, there are many people who are not afraid to die. Just as in any religion they are people who put on facades to try to impress other people, but God knows their hearts, and he may use something like a near-death experience to wake them up an make them realize that they have an obvious lack of faith.