Active Atheism

[dustingrey]

To start off, I'm an Atheist, and have been that way from a very young age. Why isn't really important in this thread, but if you want to know, I'm always open for discussion. Anyways, I am always open for exposing someone to Atheism and getting them to see what's true. I guess some would call it contamination of the mind, but I'd say it's a fair trade for brainwashing (religion).

Anyways, recently I have been looking into Atheism more extensively lately, noting organizations that seem to be looking to reeducate people. But when I look further into it, I see that they do some very base things, the main one I noticed being the fact that they charge dues to become members of these "great" Atheist organizations.

For other Atheists, does this seem somewhat hypocritical? I've always seen religion as not only false, but comparable to evil businesses, always with one hand in your pocket. So to see these organizations doing the same thing, puts them at almost the same level for me.

Now my questions are:
Should I be so disgusted by these back handed tactics?
Shouldn't these Atheists be better than this?
Or is it all the same anyways?

[133794m3r]

Originally Posted by dustingrey

To start off, I'm an Atheist, and have been that way from a very young age. Why isn't really important in this thread, but if you want to know, I'm always open for discussion. Anyways, I am always open for exposing someone to Atheism and getting them to see what's true. I guess some would call it contamination of the mind, but I'd say it's a fair trade for brainwashing (religion).

Anyways, recently I have been looking into Atheism more extensively lately, noting organizations that seem to be looking to reeducate people. But when I look further into it, I see that they do some very base things, the main one I noticed being the fact that they charge dues to become members of these "great" Atheist organizations.

For other Atheists, does this seem somewhat hypocritical? I've always seen religion as not only false, but comparable to evil businesses, always with one hand in your pocket. So to see these organizations doing the same thing, puts them at almost the same level for me.

Now my questions are:
Should I be so disgusted by these back handed tactics?
Shouldn't these Atheists be better than this?
Or is it all the same anyways?

Should I be so disgusted by these back handed tactics? YES
Shouldn't these Atheists be better than this? Of course
Or is it all the same anyways? It's the basic way of man to be corrupt. They will always find away. Those ppl will always find a way to do it.
I hope that this kinda helps you out.

[Trogdor]

Why isn't really important in this thread, but if you want to know, I'm always open for discussion. Anyways, I am always open for exposing someone to Atheism and getting them to see what's true. I guess some would call it contamination of the mind, but I'd say it's a fair trade for brainwashing (religion).

Scientologists would say the same thing except it would be about contamination and brainwashing of their thetan, except throw in the fact they love to talk about helping people. Yet, some people think they are crazy.

Shouldn't these Atheists be better than this?

So to answer that question I find most Atheists are just as crazy as Scientologists.

[dustingrey]

Originally Posted by Trogdor

Scientologists would say the same thing except it would be about contamination and brainwashing of their thetan, except throw in the fact they love to talk about helping people. Yet, some people think they are crazy.


So to answer that question I find most Atheists are just as crazy as Scientologists.

Hehe I suppose everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but if Atheists are crazy, so are Theists.

But I wasn't talking about contamination of a Thetan, I'm talking about contamination of the mind which is a very real thing (as opposed to a Thetan). And Scientologists do love helping people... at a price.

[Darth Camel]

Originally Posted by dustingrey

Should I be so disgusted by these back handed tactics?
Shouldn't these Atheists be better than this?
Or is it all the same anyways?

Most people are corrupt and greedy, looking for chances to benefit at the cost of others. That's life, whether you're an Atheist, Christian, etc.

[FauxCivility]

We should be better than this~

I mean, we accept that there is no man up in the clouds looking at you pee, but we think it's ok to charge money to show people what's actually going on?

=[

[dustingrey]

Exactly. It's charging people for the lack of a belief. How does that make sense? And why don't the members see through the bull****?

[Darth Camel]

Originally Posted by dustingrey

Exactly. It's charging people for the lack of a belief. How does that make sense? And why don't the members see through the bull****?

I'm guessing it's the sense of belonging that comes with joining the group. Never underestimate the need to be accepted.

[dustingrey]

Originally Posted by Darth Camel

I'm guessing it's the sense of belonging that comes with joining the group. Never underestimate the need to be accepted.

I suppose that's true, and never underestimate a person's greed. I can't imagine the discussions that go on in such groups though:

"Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the weekly meeting of united Atheists. This week's discussion will also cover our beliefs. So to continue on this, meet our chairman Mr. Peterson."
"God doesn't exist. Theists are wrong. Thanks for coming."

???

[Diazari]

Originally Posted by dustingrey

Hehe I suppose everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but if Atheists are crazy, so are Theists.

But I wasn't talking about contamination of a Thetan, I'm talking about contamination of the mind which is a very real thing (as opposed to a Thetan). And Scientologists do love helping people... at a price.

Good answer, but how much are they charging? There is a difference between making money and using money to spread their word. Even people with good intentions still pay for website hosting, a place to stay, and other needs. If fees are reasonable I would say nothing is wrong with it, while if unreasonable they are no better than their opposites.

Btw, agnostic for the win.

[Gow616]

Their brand of atheism is a religion in itself, just like Anarchist organizations should in reality not exist. Hypocrisy is thy name and irony is thy gain.

Too bad they won't listen or see it in this way when you call them on it.

Better investment would be to become a member of the Church of the Subgenius so that way you can leave Earth on Xist day thanks to J.R. "Bob" Dobbs.

(Church of the Subgenius started off as a joke after Jonestown and just kept going from there.)

[dustingrey]

Originally Posted by Diazari

Good answer, but how much are they charging? There is a difference between making money and using money to spread their word. Even people with good intentions still pay for website hosting, a place to stay, and other needs. If fees are reasonable I would say nothing is wrong with it, while if unreasonable they are no better than their opposites.

Btw, agnostic for the win.

In some cases, such as the Atheist Alliance International organization, they want $36 as an ANNUAL membership fee. I can't imagine paying nearly $40 to not believe in something.

[carnealse]

Don't worry about being better than that. By Atheistic thinking there is no moral level to be held accountable to.
By your belief, there is no God of any type that gave you a life with meaning or purpose so to hold yourself to an ethical standard or any corporate thinking goes against your own belief system.
So if there is no moral standard by which we have to uphold for any real reason, then why worry?

[jackluo923]

I'm athiest too, but i don't pay membership fee.

I believe that i was created by my parents as my biology textbooks says so, not god. That's just my own opinion.

[carnealse]

Be mad when you have to pay a membership fee to zuneboards.
There is a test that any logical fair minded person can take in about 30 seconds of reading it and it proves that people of sound judgment are not actually Atheist by definition as they claim. It shows them they are agnostic at best.
Still, the problem for you remains. You have an issue with their actions. Don't pay for the membership!
You have no reason to do anything for anyone for any reason. There is nothing to uphold a universal standard nor any reason why any do exist at all. If there is no God to you, there is nothing but an order of chaos and you are free to do as you please without regret or repercussion.

[dustingrey]

Originally Posted by carnealse

Be mad when you have to pay a membership fee to zuneboards.
There is a test that any logical fair minded person can take in about 30 seconds of reading it and it proves that people of sound judgment are not actually Atheist by definition as they claim. It shows them they are agnostic at best.
Still, the problem for you remains. You have an issue with their actions. Don't pay for the membership!
You have no reason to do anything for anyone for any reason. There is nothing to uphold a universal standard nor any reason why any do exist at all. If there is no God to you, there is nothing but an order of chaos and you are free to do as you please without regret or repercussion.

(Going off of what you said in your earlier post as well...) So having no god defines having no moral standard? That's a ridiculous assumption, as having no god has no relation on morals or ethics. Likewise, having a god does not seem to have relation on morals or ethics. Take a look at the prison system in America alone and you'll find Catholics, Christians, Jews, Muslims, and Atheists together. And best of all, many of them will tell you that they consider themselves religious people (well, except for the Atheists of course). Morals aren't founded on gods alone. Hell, morals can be established in a community setting as well. Society determines morals more than the bible does. Do I believe there are no consequences for my actions? Absolutely not. The law says otherwise. Do I believe I will never pay for my actions in some sort of "afterlife"? Absolutely.

"There is a test that any logical fair minded person can take in about 30 seconds of reading it and it proves that people of sound judgment are not actually Atheist by definition as they claim. It shows them they are agnostic at best."
I believe I know exactly what test you're describing. First off, no 30 second test can prove a person's faith (or lack of). And secondly, if that "test" is true and applies to everyone, then everyone is, by definition of the test, Agnostic. The test basically says that because no one can know everything, they can not know whether there is a god or not. Well, if a theist buys into that test, that would make them Agnostic as well, as they have no way of knowing whether there is a god or not. Besides, and Atheist isn't described as being a person who knows there is no god. An Atheist is defined as being a person who believes there is no god.

"You have no reason to do anything for anyone for any reason. There is nothing to uphold a universal standard nor any reason why any do exist at all. If there is no God to you, there is nothing but an order of chaos and you are free to do as you please without regret or repercussion."
Do I really even need to go into detail on how ignorant it is to assume that because there is no god in my eyes, that it means I cannot have any moral standard with uphold.



Nice try though.

[carnealse]

I know what an Atheist is, belief in no God and Agnostic not knowing one way or another of a God.
So if you took a circle, and that circle represented all knowledge in the universe past, present, and future ... and i asked you to draw how much of that knowledge you posses, you logically would have to draw a small dot. Then, in all fair mindedness, is it not possible that in all that empty space a God can exist?
All logical thinking reasons yes...hence agnostic, not knowing if there is a God or not. Then you would then by definition not be an atheist, and not everyone would be an agnostic then by the test, because by science that baffles the greatest minds and what many call "fingerprints of intelligence" they are convinced of exactly that. Not a specific God or religion, just of an intelligence.
Its simple really.
You misunderstand my whole point anyway. You take it too offensively it seems.
My point is, there is no reason for reason or moral standards if there is no purpose overall to life.
Who is the community to tell someone what is right and wrong when today's society prides itself on free thinking and the there is no wrong way to live?
So if there is no higher level of ethical law to guide our actions, and if we are the community, who are we to decide what the next person in the same community should have to live by according to morals and ethics. Now you see the delimma?
Why do you bring the bible into this? Just curious, since there are so many other beliefs and books to choose from.
I was making the whole point that you should not worry about their actions since you have no control over them and you have no standard to live by. Society is what you make it right? Society is different everywhere you go too. So which one is right and which one is moral? Which one defines how humans should universally live? By an Atheist belief, none are right and wrong. Sooo, don't be disgusted at those other Atheists and don't think they should be better than that because for Atheists worldwide, there is no universal or corporate standard.
Do your own thing. Who are you to them to be mad at their profiting and to what standard would they care about how you look at them?
Oh, no one said anything about paying in the afterlife. Don't forget, many believe in reaping rewards as well.
It was just my advice as to why you should not care and to live and let be. Then I said why I believe by your beliefs why you should not bother with them. That was all.

Edit: And how is religion brainwashing? Religion is man made anyway, but its essence is not. So if someone believes in something that helps them and their life is better because of the body of faith they are apart of...isn't that good? Brainwashing is wiping away a thinking mind for a strict conformity, which usually ends up in a cult. I think your distaste for religion gives a twisted perspective to the world wide reality of "religion."

[dustingrey]

I know what an Atheist is, belief in no God and Agnostic not knowing one way or another of a God...All logical thinking reasons yes...hence agnostic, not knowing if there is a God or not. Then you would then by definition not be an atheist, and not everyone would be an agnostic then by the test...

Apparently you don't know what the difference between being an Atheist and being Agnostic are. By definition, an Atheist is, "a person who denies or disbelieves the existence of a supreme being or beings." An Agnostic, by definition, is, "a person who holds that the existence of the ultimate cause, as God, and the essential nature of things are unknown and unknowable, or that human knowledge is limited to experience." This test proves nothing, and certainly does not make Atheism impossible. While an Atheist can admit that he/she cannot know everything, the fact that he/she believes there is no god is what make him/her an Atheist. Agnostics say no one can know for sure, but they don't believe one way or the other.

My point is, there is no reason for reason or moral standards if there is no purpose overall to life.
Who is the community to tell someone what is right and wrong when today's society prides itself on free thinking and the there is no wrong way to live?

Perhaps I forgot the point in time where America fell to Anarchism and every way of life was acceptable. Because if that did indeed happen, I totally agree with you. But the fact of the matter is that today's society doesn't pride itself in believing there is no wrong way to live. If that were true, why on Earth would it have laws set up, and punishments for those who do not participate? Oh, and perhaps I also forgot that there was no purpose to life if there is no afterlife. Except...maybe... living?

Why do you bring the bible into this? Just curious, since there are so many other beliefs and books to choose from.

I brought the bible into this because of just what you said. There are so many other beliefs and books to choose from. I don't recall saying the "Christian bible" or "Jewish bible". Once again, I think you're confused on the actually meaning of the word. By definition, a bible is "(often lowercase) the sacred writings of any religion."



When it comes down to it, I think you're confused about a lot of things. In this case, it seems to be Atheism as a whole. Being Atheist does not mean you are free from any sort of punishment for your actions. After death, maybe, but in reality, we are subject to the same moral laws of Theists. Being Atheist does not mean one doesn't have a conscience after all. Because you seem to have difficulties with definitions, a conscience is defined as being, "the inner sense of what is right or wrong in one's conduct or motives, impelling one toward right action: to follow the dictates of conscience."

And, as far as the brainwashing bit goes, well, it seems you wouldn't understand anyways. How's the clean brain treating you by the way?