The afterlife

[cheeZ]

Originally Posted by floorpuncher

It's one thing to debate intelligently but when you start insulting people for their beliefs that's just childish and ignorant.

You HONESTLY think that going wherever you want after you die makes as much sense as Christianity? That's ridiculous. But, I do admit, after re-reading my post, I do think it sounds a little mean, and that's not really what I was trying to sound like. The main thing I guess I wanted to ask you, Archimedes, was to share with me (and everyone) why you believe what you believe. I guess it just sounded so crazy to me that I lost control. I apologize.

Originally Posted by floorpuncher

And I suppose that the idea of a big dude with a beard in the sky that magically created everything does?

Big dude with a beard in the sky? Where did you hear that?! First of all, he's not a "big dude," he's an omnipotent spirit, who is obviously powerful enough to create a whole entire universe. And "with a beard," I don't even wanna go into that, that's the craziest thing I've ever heard, you apparently watch too many cartoons that depict God in a stupid, unrealistic way... And yea, he is in the sky, and everywhere else, because he is omnipotent. He can be everywhere... After all, he did create everything.

Oh, and did you even read what I posted ABOVE that post I wrote to Archimedes? That was my main discussion right there, and since you didn't quote that post then you obviously have no counter-argument for it, right? It seems your just picking at the tiny things you think I said wrong instead of discussing the main topic of this thread: Is there an afterlife? Yes or no? You give me a realistic reason to back up what you believe and I'll try my best to give you one back. That's what a debate is.

And no, I'm not 15, I'm 13...

[Little Horn]

Originally Posted by cheeZ

You HONESTLY think that going wherever you want after you die makes as much sense as Christianity? That's ridiculous. But, I do admit, after re-reading my post, I do think it sounds a little mean, and that's not really what I was trying to sound like. The main thing I guess I wanted to ask you, Archimedes, was to share with me (and everyone) why you believe what you believe. I guess it just sounded so crazy to me that I lost control. I apologize.



Big dude with a beard in the sky? Where did you hear that?! First of all, he's not a "big dude," he's an omnipotent spirit, who is obviously powerful enough to create a whole entire universe. And "with a beard," I don't even wanna go into that, that's the craziest thing I've ever heard, you apparently watch too many cartoons that depict God in a stupid, unrealistic way... And yea, he is in the sky, and everywhere else, because he is omnipotent. He can be everywhere... After all, he did create everything.

Oh, and did you even read what I posted ABOVE that post I wrote to Archimedes? That was my main discussion right there, and since you didn't quote that post then you obviously have no counter-argument for it, right? It seems your just picking at the tiny things you think I said wrong instead of discussing the main topic of this thread: Is there an afterlife? Yes or no? You give me a realistic reason to back up what you believe and I'll try my best to give you one back. That's what a debate is.

And no, I'm not 15, I'm 13...

I'm not gong to justify myself to someone who can't vote, doesn't pay taxes and most of all, can not debate without letting the insults fly. you don't deserve anymore of my time.

[cheeZ]

Oh wow, that's REAL mature of you. Just because I'm younger than you doesn't mean I'm stupid. And why does it matter if I can't vote? Or pay taxes? What does that even have to do with having a discussion about the afterlife? It seems your just trying to find some excuse to run away because you can't think of anything to say back to me...

Oh and, way to put a kid down, 'I don't deserve anymore of your time...' You really have a way with words my friend. Especially when you say it RIGHT AFTER I spend a crap-load of time writing a post trying to start a discussion with you. Man, you are really a piece of work...

[Gow616]

Originally Posted by cheeZ

It seems as if everything you just said was the things YOU wanted. Never have I heard of a religion that believes after you die you hang out with the grim reaper and chat with a coyote... Are you just making all of this up because it's exactly what you want? If you are, then sorry pal, that's not the way it works here in this thing called "LIFE." But if you aren't, then please share why you think your religion is true...

In essence, whatever we discuss about the afterlife it is just a matter of what we want it, wish it, pray it or have faith in it to be.

As such, the actual thoughts about the afterlife become shaped by the individual's perception. If it is perceived that a deity gave you free will and an afterlife that is heaven or hell than what leads one to believe that one can no longer execute free will upon entering one place after death?

As for death, I figured since it kindly stopped for me I would return the favor. Unless we assume that the afterlife is devoid of free will than would the point be in praying in such thing. Rather it be better that free will is exercised through my examples than to face a afterlife lacking in it making heaven and hell indistinguishable.

Do you know what my afterlife will be or you basing it on your thoughts of what your afterlife will be?

Perception is the key component.

Originally Posted by cheeZ

Just out of curiosity, what is your view of heaven? In other words, what do you imagine heaven is like? Just a big white room, filled with winged people, singing baby songs like "Jesus loves me this I know," and playing shuffleboard with Abraham Lincoln?

Heaven is with God and Hell is without God.

All other facts are a matter of Christian faith or were created/told by servants of God over the years to make one place sound great and the other bad. Dante does have influence on this somewhat but it has been developed over the years by many preachers.

Originally Posted by cheeZ

Come on dude, heaven is gonna be glorious. God made the whole freakin' universe, you don't he can at least make a place that's happy? Plus, you think it'll be too repetitive?

No, the comment of repetitiveness is discussing the issue of reincarnation, which albeit we do different things on this Earth it can all be boiled down to birth, eat, sleep, maybe procreate, maybe work and then we die. If you were put through this cycle many times in what as known as reincarnation it sounds like it would drive one crazy. Unless we are talking about reincarnation that wipes the mind clean each time but than what would be the point.

[cheeZ]

Originally Posted by Gow616

In essence, whatever we discuss about the afterlife it is just a matter of what we want it, wish it, pray it or have faith in it to be.

As such, the actual thoughts about the afterlife become shaped by the individual's perception. If it is perceived that a deity gave you free will and an afterlife that is heaven or hell than what leads one to believe that one can no longer execute free will upon entering one place after death?

As for death, I figured since it kindly stopped for me I would return the favor. Unless we assume that the afterlife is devoid of free will than would the point be in praying in such thing. Rather it be better that free will is exercised through my examples than to face a afterlife lacking in it making heaven and hell indistinguishable.

Do you know what my afterlife will be or you basing it on your thoughts of what your afterlife will be?

Perception is the key component.



Heaven is with God and Hell is without God.

All other facts are a matter of Christian faith or were created/told by servants of God over the years to make one place sound great and the other bad. Dante does have influence on this somewhat but it has been developed over the years by many preachers.



No, the comment of repetitiveness is discussing the issue of reincarnation, which albeit we do different things on this Earth it can all be boiled down to birth, eat, sleep, maybe procreate, maybe work and then we die. If you were put through this cycle many times in what as known as reincarnation it sounds like it would drive one crazy. Unless we are talking about reincarnation that wipes the mind clean each time but than what would be the point.

But for what reason do you believe that after you die you become reincarnated?

[Gow616]

Originally Posted by cheeZ

But for what reason do you believe that after you die you become reincarnated?

I was answering the issue of reincarnation from the opening post not that I believe in it.

[Little Horn]

Originally Posted by cheeZ

Oh wow, that's REAL mature of you. Just because I'm younger than you doesn't mean I'm stupid. And why does it matter if I can't vote? Or pay taxes? What does that even have to do with having a discussion about the afterlife? It seems your just trying to find some excuse to run away because you can't think of anything to say back to me...

Oh and, way to put a kid down, 'I don't deserve anymore of your time...' You really have a way with words my friend. Especially when you say it RIGHT AFTER I spend a crap-load of time writing a post trying to start a discussion with you. Man, you are really a piece of work...

I never said because you are younger than me you're stupid. You made yourself look stupid all on your own and I'm not going to waste anymore time on that. When you decide to come to me intelligently and you lose the hostility then perhaps we can talk but until then...

[cheeZ]

Originally Posted by Gow616

I was answering the issue of reincarnation from the opening post not that I believe in it.

Oh, sorry, I guess I got confused. So then, what do you believe will happen after you die? I know you said you wouldn't mind hanging out with the Reaper and chatting with some coyote, but what do you believe will actually happen?

[cheeZ]

Originally Posted by floorpuncher

I never said because you are younger than me you're stupid. You made yourself look stupid all on your own and I'm not going to waste anymore time on that. When you decide to come to me intelligently and you lose the hostility then perhaps we can talk but until then...

But all I'm asking you is a simple question: What do you believe and why do you believe it? I gave you a long essay on why I believe what I believe, but all your responding to me with is "you don't deserve anymore of my time!"

[mr.handsomeman]

Originally Posted by cheeZ

But all I'm asking you is a simple question: What do you believe and why do you believe it? I gave you a long essay on why I believe what I believe, but all your responding to me with is "you don't deserve anymore of my time!"

He does have a point,

the kids 13, but he can very well debate with anyone of us, some of the most brilliant minds in history were brilliant at a young age, why not now?
Floorpuncher, I respect you and what you're saying, but answer the question. Paying taxes and voting has nothing to do with religion or reincarnation.

[Little Horn]

Originally Posted by cheeZ

But all I'm asking you is a simple question: What do you believe and why do you believe it? I gave you a long essay on why I believe what I believe, but all your responding to me with is "you don't deserve anymore of my time!"

If you took the time to read through the posts you see that I already answered what I believe. But, just for you...

I am an Atheist therefor I do not believe in a spiritual afterlife. I believe that once you're dead, you're dead. That's all there is to it. I believe that we create our own Heaven and Hell on this earth during our lifetime. We are in control of ourselves and we determine how great or how horrible our own lives are.

You want to know why I believe what I believe? Because after years and years of studying, trying to find answers to questions that I have had all my life i realized that the answers have always been right here in front of me not vested with some all-powerful being. How can i be expected to believe something that I have never seen? how can i be expected to believe in something that science tells me doesn't exist? Faith? I've never found comfort in the idea of faith or the idea that if you pray hard enough God will make it happen. I much rather take things into my own hands and MAKE them happen.

Does this answer your question?

With all this aside, you have to keep in mind that I did not ask you to justify to me WHY you believe what you believe. You gave that up of your own free will. The only reason that I am taking the time to write to you is because I see that perhaps i was little too harsh. After all, I am an adult and you are a child. How can I expect you to improve yourself if I do not take the time to share my wisdom?

When I spoke of the right to vote and paying taxes I was not attacking the fact that you are comparatively younger than I am but the fact that because you are young you have not had the opportunity to experience life as it truly is and make decisions for yourself. up to this point you've had your parents or guardians tell you what do do, how to do it and when to do it by. You know nothing of life outside of your parent's home and chances are have never taken the time to try and figure things out for yourself and to put your beliefs to question.

A lot of people believe because they are told they are supposed to. They continue to believe because they don't know that they have choice. They are afraid to challenge their own beliefs because they are told you are not supposed to question the word of God. This is crap. You search until you find something that is right for you. If you have any doubt in something within your beliefs, search for the answer but also understand that the answer may not be the one that you're looking for. For me, the answer always was, "there is no God". The point is that you never stop searching even after you think you've found it. I'm an Atheist and have been my whole life yet I study religion and I am working on a PhD in Theology.

Most importantly, you can not insult someone's beliefs or the person that hods those beliefs the way you did earlier. This is where I have a problem with a lot of religionists, they feel that not only is everyone else wrong, but they have to make it a point to judge and let it be known that they are judging. You can debate someone's beliefs all you want, but do so intelligently and be prepared to defend your own faith and be able to support the ideals that you hold true.

[Scrapz616]

Yes, I believe in an afterlife, heaven, hell, and a new life on this world.

[cheeZ]

I can understand what you mean by me not being able to think like you since I'm still a kid. But I have taken the time to figure out why I believe in the Bible. I have had many doubts in Christianity being true, like 'what if Jesus was a phony?' and 'what if there really is no God?' Many, many times I've felt like this. Mainly what I did at those times was just pray and read the Bible, and it's the weirdest thing, when I did that, all of a sudden the doubts just went away, and I felt a piece come over me every time. It's like happiness was put inside me, like someone was there to comfort me when I was the only one in the room. That's why I believe there's a God, because when I'm sad and just pray, I can feel someone there, I can't hear, see, touch, or smell Him, I just know He's there. And it sorta makes sense to me, because if God made us, then He'd surely know how to communicate with us in a way that no other human can.

I also just remembered a cool Bible verse that is about exactly what you asked, "How can I believe in something I cannot see?" Here it is:

John 20:24-29
24Now Thomas (called Didymus), one of the Twelve, was not with the disciples when Jesus came. 25So the other disciples told him, "We have seen the Lord!"
But he said to them, "Unless I see the nail marks in his hands and put my finger where the nails were, and put my hand into his side, I will not believe it."
26A week later his disciples were in the house again, and Thomas was with them. Though the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, "Peace be with you!" 27Then he said to Thomas, "Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe."

28Thomas said to him, "My Lord and my God!"

29Then Jesus told him, "Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."

See that right there? Verse 29 is the verse I'm talking about. "Because you have seen me, you have believed; Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed." Now doesn't that sound a lot like modern times? To me, Thomas (or Didymus) represents atheists. He refuses to believe that Jesus did in fact rise from the dead until he sees Jesus himself. You are saying you refuse to believe in God simply because you do not see him. It's the same story, man. That verse was meant for people like you. Now I don't know what it's like to be 25, but I strongly believe that if you just pray with all your heart, truly believing He is there, you will just know that someone's watching over you...

[Little Horn]

Originally Posted by cheeZ

That verse was meant for people like you. Now I don't know what it's like to be 25, but I strongly believe that if you just pray with all your heart, truly believing He is there, you will just know that someone's watching over you.

No, that verse was meant for people like you. It's there to control the doubt that you may have about your own religion not to convince me to believe. Even so, they are just words in a book the same as any other book. Where's the validity?

Originally Posted by cheeZ

if you just pray with all your heart, truly believing He is there, you will just know that someone's watching over you.

I think this is where I lose a lot of people. I do not need God. I do not want God. Praying will do nothing for me because there is nothing in my life that I want to achieve that I can't do on my own. For some reason religionists fell that because i am an atheist that we are lacking something in our lives and that simply isn't the case. I have a great life. I have a beautiful wife, a wonderful child, a good paying job, a nice house, a nice car, I don't drink or do drugs and most of all I am happy. I have all of this and more not because of God or because I prayed for God to give me these things but because I work hard to get the things that I want in life. Not just material things like Zunes and big screen TVs but happiness and joy. There is nothing missing in my life.

You can keep your God if that is what truly makes you happy. Just do it for the right reasons. Your reasons, not someone else's. Don't close yourself off to one religion. You should expose yourself to all religions and philosophies. If nothing else it might solidify your own beliefs a little more or you might find something else that makes more sense. As i said I am an Atheist yet I constantly study religion because you never know, I just may read something in some obscure codex that makes me a believer. It's unfair to myself to say I don't believe so f*ck everything else just as it's unfair to you to completely close your mind off to other religions/philosophies.

[Gow616]

Originally Posted by cheeZ