standing for the pledge...

[Eurydius del Ark]

I go to school in Arkansas (yes, we wear shoes)

And it just matters about which teacher you have in the morning and if you feel like bothering them.

I just stand cause I don't want to get on my teachers bad side... they hold the pen.

But, my chinese teacher talks to students during the pledge XP

My old german teacher encouraged us to say it... in german. <_<

My Stat teacher would tap our shoulder if someone didn't get up.. she is a nice old lady so...
____

Making the pledge mandatory takes all of the feeling out of it.

I feel no pride in doing it every day, I stand out of instinct for the most part and wait throught the monotone recitement.

Its a pain...

[HeXuS]

That sh*t shouldn't be tolerated...to be straight up honest. Hell, no offense to those who might do it here, but I even get mad seeing people hang up other countries flags outside their house...

YOU ARE IN AMERICA.... NOT YOUR NATIVE COUNTRY!

Sadly, I don't think I need to state which ethnicity does this the most.

[HipHopScribe]

Pledge of Allegiance = Brain Washing, no one should be forced to stand for it and it is unconstitutional for schools to force students to do so.

Originally Posted by HeXuS

That sh*t shouldn't be tolerated...to be straight up honest. Hell, no offense to those who might do it here, but I even get mad seeing people hang up other countries flags outside their house...

YOU ARE IN AMERICA.... NOT YOUR NATIVE COUNTRY!

Sadly, I don't think I need to state which ethnicity does this the most.

What complete nonsense.

[Eurydius del Ark]

I may fall into teaching on day (because the state will pay for your college and such).

I wouldn't really mind if people stood or not.

If they want to be ungrateful, lazy or indifferent, let them.

If God loves America more than any other country they will get there whrn they die.. why bother?

[mr.handsomeman]

I'm not standing right now, the pledge is going on, and I'm typing this post....yay for me!

[Cheapliquid]

i just have to say.

I love when people don't take pride in our country.

i won't say anything more, it'll be full of bad words.

[HipHopScribe]

Why should I be proud of this country? I'm proud of my ancestors and my relatives for being strong enough to persevere through what "this country" has done for hundreds of years, I'm grateful to those people who stand up and force this country to honor some of the principles it claims to stand for, and I appreciate those principles. I'm not proud of or grateful for this country as entity, because of all it has done and continues to do as an entity, I won't overlook all the evil acts in favor of the good. I feel people should be more selective of what they praise and take pride in, look to principles and actions, and perhaps so many mistakes wouldn't be committed in the name of this country, and supported by this blind patriotism.

A flag is just a symbol, and you might think it's patriotic to stand up and salute it, and recite a pledge to it, but it really is just a propaganda technique, to indoctrinate children into blind patriotism, so they're easier to convince and lead.

[Gow616]

Sorry, but with all due respect, common courtesy should be taught to these children. They don't have to recite but at the very least have the common decency to stand during it.

I would like to see the same individuals thrust into a situation where they are in one of several foreign countries and they are a member of that country. The anthem or pledge of that country comes on and they don't stand...what would be the punishment than?

Also, unless the child has turned 18 that child is not a citizen of the United States but is person in the custody of their guardian. Once they hit 18 than they can do whatever they want but until than they are just a person in care of their guardian who has placed that child in the custody of school for education.

Heh...I always love it when people argue for Bill of Rights for people not even 18 years old, which is the age that determines when a person is a Citizen not how mature or immature they are.

Addendum:

If we play the people's history card it still cannot deny the fact that you are typing that response freely.

Are we to supposed to condemn society for all time due to the mistakes of the past or are supposed to remember those mistakes and build a better society?

[HipHopScribe]

The Bill of Rights doesn't just protect citizens

Originally Posted by Gow616

If we play the people's history card it still cannot deny the fact that you are typing that response freely.

Are we to supposed to condemn society for all time due to the mistakes of the past or are supposed to remember those mistakes and build a better society?

The mistakes aren't just in the past.

[Gow616]

Originally Posted by HipHopScribe

The Bill of Rights doesn't just protect citizens

We can't change the fact the child is the responsibility of the parent or guardian until such time that are deemed an adult. Why else would a child had to file court proceedings to become independent? Why else are children brought back when they run away?

Rights are guaranteed to a U.S. Citizen it just out of common courtesy that it is extended to others and children in the custody of Citizens.

Originally Posted by HipHopScribe

The mistakes aren't just in the past.

Yet, here we type open and freely on a forum without persecution. We are not banned from looking at certain websites due to it being against religious or government practice. Most of the injustice in the system is the result of individuals not a mass conspiracy to keep you or I down. We are free to pursue an education and to get a job.

However, we do have individuals in the system who do cause problems and they are not of one race either. Though we have laws that guarantee protection against that or has the Civil Rights movement meant nothing?

[mr.handsomeman]

Well....i hit that 18 year old quota, so if I want to, then I will, but if I don't then I won't simple as that.

[HipHopScribe]

Originally Posted by Gow616

We can't change the fact the child is the responsibility of the parent or guardian until such time that are deemed an adult. Why else would a child had to file court proceedings to become independent? Why else are children brought back when they run away?

Rights are guaranteed to a U.S. Citizen it just out of common courtesy that it is extended to others and children in the custody of Citizens.

Some rights are only guaranteed to citizens, those which are specified as such in the Constitutions, but other apply to everyone in the US. Of course, the child was the responsibility of the parent, who left him under the care of the school, and the rule of the school district removes the parent from the equation, even if his mother had told him not to stand during the pledge, it seems he would have been punished.

In addition, there are people within the school system who are over 18.

Yet, here we type open and freely on a forum without persecution. We are not banned from looking at certain websites due to it being against religious or government practice. Most of the injustice in the system is the result of individuals not a mass conspiracy to keep you or I down. We are free to pursue an education and to get a job.

However, we do have individuals in the system who do cause problems and they are not of one race either. Though we have laws that guarantee protection against that or has the Civil Rights movement meant nothing?

I don't feel I should be grateful to this country for not persecuting me. I disagree about the system, it is a problem, it's not just a few individuals. Of course the Civil Rights movement accomplished a lot, but it has not been carried through with effective policy, which is why we still have a segregated education system in practice, and in fact the Supreme Court has been chipping away at the rights of school systems to address that problem. Everyone has a right to pursue an education, but the education people receive is not equal. And that's just one issue, there is much more that is wrong with the system and with the actions of this country.

[HeXuS]

Then your ass needs to move to Iraq...so when we DO drop the nuke, you take the blast. ;x

If you don't like America so much then get your ass out, before you give the rest of us your ignorance and bad name.

kthx.

[Gow616]

Originally Posted by HipHopScribe

In addition, there are people within the school system who are over 18.

If they are 18 and within the school system than they should know to act as responsible adults within that system. Providing a clear defined answer to why they will not stand.

Originally Posted by HipHopScribe

I don't feel I should be grateful to this country for not persecuting me.

I am but than again I see what has been done to Kurds, Chaldeans, Jews and more through videos, live interviews and other forms. So we should be ungrateful to a nation that doesn't persecute us and be grateful to a nation that does?

Originally Posted by HipHopScribe

I disagree about the system, it is a problem, it's not just a few individuals.

The system by itself cannot support unfair treatment of others it has to be propped up by the actions of individuals.

Originally Posted by HipHopScribe

Of course the Civil Rights movement accomplished a lot, but it has not been carried through with effective policy, which is why we still have a segregated education system in practice, and in fact the Supreme Court has been chipping away at the rights of school systems to address that problem. Everyone has a right to pursue an education, but the education people receive is not equal. And that's just one issue, there is much more that is wrong with the system and with the actions of this country.

Segregated how? Is the argument that inner city schools receive poor funding hence a poor education system? Or is the students in the school not wanting to pursue an education? It tends to be more of the latter instead of the former unless we are discussing poor rural West Virginia schools in the Ozarks.

I went to a poor high school in Oklahoma with all the problems of a large inner city school and my education worked out just fine because I wanted to learn.

What instances are we discussing of the Supreme Court chipping away?

What other wrong actions?

The conflict in Iraq? If we want to go down that road you may want to talk to a Kurd or Chaldean from Iraq before doing so.

Oil prices? Well, China and India using more Oil equals higher prices. Supply and demand.

Politics? Both sides are just as bad as the other. There only exists a difference between the two major parties of less than 2%.

[mr.handsomeman]

Originally Posted by HeXuS

Then your ass needs to move to Iraq...so when we DO drop the nuke, you take the blast. ;x

If you don't like America so much then get your ass out, before you give the rest of us your ignorance and bad name.

kthx.

I don't think that it's that he doesn't like America as a whole, maybe just that there are certain things. But I'm sure that they would love to be here than be in another country. I know that I would.

[HipHopScribe]

Originally Posted by Gow616

If they are 18 and within the school system than they should know to act as responsible adults within that system. Providing a clear defined answer to why they will not stand.

They shouldn't be obligated to explain why they're exercising their right to not stand.

I am but than again I see what has been done to Kurds, Chaldeans, Jews and more through videos, live interviews and other forms. So we should be ungrateful to a nation that doesn't persecute us and be grateful to a nation that does?

Great logic there, I'm not grateful that this country doesn't persecute me, so naturally I'd be grateful if they did persecute me. I believe being free from persecution is a human right, due to all people. I think the idea that I should be grateful to this country for not persecuting me when I want to type on a message board suggests that it is this country's right to bestow that freedom to me, it is not, it's the freedom I deserve as a human being. I am grateful to have that freedom, but I am not grate to this country because I have that freedom, it's not rightfully theirs to give or take away. Clearly, when it is being denied, that is a horrible violation of rights, which I am completely opposed to.

The system by itself cannot support unfair treatment of others it has to be propped up by the actions of individuals.

A system is created by and used by people, if the system is design in a way that allow for rampant abuse, then it is not an accident it remains that way, and it is not an accident that it is that way in the first place. Humans can't be separated from the system, so if people are able to act within the system and abuse the rights of others, it is the system that is as much at fault.

Segregated ho