I know that all firmware updates to the Zune have to be signed by Microsoft but what if you fake signed, it has been done before.(LEGAL DISCLAIMER: I DO NOT CONDONE AND DO NOT ATTEMPT TO FAKE A SIGNATURE) As the whole design to allow firmware updates, as a hacked OS could sneak in this way. Is this possible?
-I am not stating this as it will ever happen, but more of a hypothetical question.-
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In order for it to be "fake signed", the private key of Microsoft's signature would have to be discovered. It is not possible for us to decrypt it, because it would take an incredibly large amount of time to do so.
The possibility of modifying the Zune's firmware is nonexistent. That leaves us with the possibility of using the Zune's firmware itself to let us do more things.
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"Against logic there is no armor like ignorance." - Laurence J. Peter
What Netrix is saying, there is no way of faking a signature.
There is no way of faking the signatures that the Zune uses. If the keys were 512 bits, it might be possible, though it would take a few weeks to decrypt. The Zune's signatures are 1024 bits, 2048 bits, and 4096 bits.
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"Against logic there is no armor like ignorance." - Laurence J. Peter
I know that all firmware updates to the Zune have to be signed by Microsoft but what if you fake signed, it has been done before.(LEGAL DISCLAIMER: I DO NOT CONDONE AND DO NOT ATTEMPT TO FAKE A SIGNATURE) As the whole design to allow firmware updates, as a hacked OS could sneak in this way. Is this possible?
-I am not stating this as it will ever happen, but more of a hypothetical question.-
I do believe that you've mistaken a digital signature for a written one. That's the only kind you can "fake" and that would have legal reprecussions. For what else I might say, what Netrix said.
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So if I understand Netrix, it is posssible. Ignoring the factors of time, it seems to be possible.
Basically, it is theoretically possible by the |\/|<>5T |_33T |-|4><()R G0|)5 (Translation: Most elite hacker gods )
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Formally SmileDog.
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So if I understand Netrix, it is posssible. Ignoring the factors of time, it seems to be possible.
Basically, it is theoretically possible by the |/|<>5T |_33T |-|4><()R G0|)5 (Translation: Most elite hacker gods )
All of the signatures could theoretically be hacked, ignoring time. The 1024-bit signature could possibly be hacked within a reasonable amount of time using NSA-scale computers or mass parallel computing, but the 2048-bit and 4096-bit signatures are effectively impossible to hack in the foreseeable future, since the time it would take to hack a signature increases exponentially as the bit size increases. Also, it is not practical to believe that we will have access to NSA-scale computers or sufficient parallel computing.
It just will not happen. We have a better chance of the signature being leaked from someone within Microsoft.
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"Against logic there is no armor like ignorance." - Laurence J. Peter
There's other ways to do it, without actually getting microsoft's digital signature. How do you think custom ROMs on Windows Mobile devices are possible? You would essentially have to hack into the bootloader and BIOS and hex-edit some stuff in there to get it to work with unsigned firmware. or, any firmware with a fake signature. However, to actually get that to work, you'd have to be able to access those files, which I don't think is possible, unless someone figures out how to do a dump of the Zune's firmware. Also, there's a whole level of security that MS has built into the zune, I forget what it's called, but I'm sure that wouldn't be fun to mess with.
This is same reason why there is no Rockbox firmware alternative for the Zune (and probably never will be). There's a thread on the Rockbox wiki, in regards to this question:
There's other ways to do it, without actually getting microsoft's digital signature. How do you think custom ROMs on Windows Mobile devices are possible? You would essentially have to hack into the bootloader and BIOS and hex-edit some stuff in there to get it to work with unsigned firmware. or, any firmware with a fake signature. However, to actually get that to work, you'd have to be able to access those files, which I don't think is possible, unless someone figures out how to do a dump of the Zune's firmware. Also, there's a whole level of security that MS has built into the zune, I forget what it's called, but I'm sure that wouldn't be fun to mess with.
The underlying bootloader is probably inside a chip in the Zune that is not accessible except possibly by removing the chip and reading it with some sort of connector.
We already know how to dump the Zune's firmware... It does not help in allowing us to replace the Zune's firmware.
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"Against logic there is no armor like ignorance." - Laurence J. Peter
I should've said something other than firmware. There's also other forms of software on the device that aren't ever changed. That would be the bootload and any BIOS information. I meant a dump of that stuff.
I should've said something other than firmware. There's also other forms of software on the device that aren't ever changed. That would be the bootload and any BIOS information. I meant a dump of that stuff.
Yeah, the software that boots up the Zune's firmware is super hidden somewhere and I am very sure that none one has found it yet (or if anyone has really tried). There is no hope of changing the Zune's firmware unless that software is found and the signature check is removed.
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"Against logic there is no armor like ignorance." - Laurence J. Peter
Let's get some highly skilled hackers in here with the required parts to get it done. Haha. I actually really don't care, I like the zune software. If I were to hack it, I'd just add support for more file types.
Personally roebeet, rockbox makes me consider getting a media player(one of the rockbox supported ones)
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Personally roebeet, rockbox makes me consider getting a media player(one of the rockbox supported ones)
The advantages are constant updates for your older players, it's open source so anyone can contribute, it supports FLAC and OGG Vorbis (which is very important to me), has a variety of games and apps, and you can theme it to your heart's content.
But, it can be buggy at times, especially on new ports. And the video playback, although acceptable, is still rather weak. Probably the most popular Rockbox players are:
- iPod 4G / 5G. I tried Rockbox on both. It's not bad at all (4G get basic video playback, too), but the sound quality is still sub-par.
- Sansa E200 v1. I've owned several of these, and it improves the player a lot. But its sound is still pretty bad.
- Gigabeat F. I still own one of these, and I love it. Sound quality is very good, although the Zune 30 is a little better. I modded mine to take a 120GB HDD, and I'm evening using a Zune-eque theme.
- iRiver Hxxx series. These are very hard to get, since they are one of the few players with optical out.
- Cowon X5. I have considered getting one of these on eBay, but they are a bit expensive, as well. I've heard that the SQ on this player is excellent.
All of the signatures could theoretically be hacked, ignoring time. The 1024-bit signature could possibly be hacked within a reasonable amount of time using NSA-scale computers or mass parallel computing, but the 2048-bit and 4096-bit signatures are effectively impossible to hack in the foreseeable future, since the time it would take to hack a signature increases exponentially as the bit size increases. Also, it is not practical to believe that we will have access to NSA-scale computers or sufficient parallel computing.
It just will not happen. We have a better chance of the signature being leaked from someone within Microsoft.
Instead of the Zune Firmware, would it be any different to hack the software and do things that way? Or am I mistaken.
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Instead of the Zune Firmware, would it be any different to hack the software and do things that way? Or am I mistaken.
A few people have "hacked" the Zune software a little bit to customize some of it, but that is probably as far as anyone will be able to go. The Zune software has a lot of code, and only a part of it is disassemblable.
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"Against logic there is no armor like ignorance." - Laurence J. Peter
Well xeatmyshorts, the firmware "monitors" the game, if a game does something outside the normal capabilities of XNA, it just restarts.
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Formally SmileDog.
Note: I prefer to have conversations over Skype, not over PM.
You will be bottom priority if I happen to be talking to a friend/relative.
thx Jorvette!
Changing Firmware
That's the only kind you can "fake" and that would have legal reprecussions. For what else I might say, what Netrix said.
