Objects - Page 2

Link9228 · 08-28-2008, 11:46 AM

i'm not trying to sound like i'm amazing if any of that was aimed at me. I just know that instead of having others fix his code for him, he should be out looking at tutorials, and reading books, and getting samples and editing them, rather than having others do the stuff. I'm really not an a-hole. I would love to help zune apps, but it doesn't seem he has taken my advice of reading up on c#. Had he done that, he wouldn't have needed to know what an object was. I understand that people don't know how to do things, and sometimes they make stupid mistakes (happens to me all the time), but daily he has questions on rather simple things. If he takes the time to learn all about c# before developing games, then he will be able to start helping others rather than needing it.

and about him having his own forums... he asks enough questions. it's not really derogatory. If other beginners have the same questions... well there they would be, nice and answered.

Locke · 08-28-2008, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tiptup300

Where did that come from? Apparently sarcasm flys right past you. I was joking about the "exploding" thing. I'm just saying he should probably pick up a book or take a class in programming. Learning how to program does take time, you can't just cut apart programs and expect to learn everything. You can learn a lot, but you still need a little bit of guidance.

And as to the topic of VB, I believe I missed the part of where I insulted you?

Tiptup, worry not. A mod must have have deleted a post that he refered to. At least, I hope so; seems like a bit of an outburst where there was previously amicable coversation. Though, I don't see why ZuneApps doesn't get inheritance; I can only code a little and even I understand the concept. Objects too.

Tiptup300 · 08-28-2008, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Locke

Tiptuo, worry not. A mod must have have deleted a post that he refered to. At least, I hope so; seems like a bit of an outburst where there was previously amicable coversation. Though, I don't see why ZuneApps doesn't get inheritance; I can only code a little and even I understand the concept. Objects too.

Um, I'm not quite sure about that, it seemed pretty guided at me.

Anachostic · 08-28-2008, 12:39 PM

Your responses to people near or at your level of skill are decent, but always contain a correction. I guess you have to constantly prove yourself. However, your responses to beginners are not helpful or supportive.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tiptup300

Also, coupling is bad. Encapsulation was the developer standard, but now you can use access modifiers which sort of already does encapsulation for the developer.

The person is having trouble with terminology. He is using objects, since he is creating programs, but he doesn't know it. Your response is to throw even higher-level terminology at him.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tiptup300

I don't really want to explain inheritance, I think it would make his brain explode. Or would fly right past him. :P

As a response to my sarcastic comment, you return with an insult.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tiptup300

Also, VB? woah. In school we had to use VB6 to make stuff. All I did was make games like pong and this fun mouse game where you had to keep a ball from a wall. I also almost finished a physics minigame that was fun.

Based on previous statements you've made, this is how I intrepreted your reponse:

"VB? woah." Reminds me of the common iPod insult "What's a Zune?"
"In school we had...make stuff" I don't know how old you are, but it sounds like you are drawing a parallel between high school and VB, as if using VB means you aren't grown up enough to use a supposedly better language.
"All I did was..." Because VB isn't good for anything else.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tiptup300

Where did that come from? Apparently sarcasm flys right past you. I was joking about the "exploding" thing. I'm just saying he should probably pick up a book or take a class in programming. Learning how to program does take time, you can't just cut apart programs and expect to learn everything. You can learn a lot, but you still need a little bit of guidance.

And as to the topic of VB, I believe I missed the part of where I insulted you?

You mean this? (edit for clarity: I am referring to the underlined part of the above quote)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tiptup300

I'm not saying you should quit, but I am saying you may want to try reading a book on C# or something.

That sounds encouraging.

With all that explanation, I don't particularly mean to single you out, and I tried to convey that by addressing everyone. However, it is not the first time that I have been insulted for being a VB programmer. I hope I am mistaken in my impressions of you and I hope that you work at being less condescending and more supportive of beginning users.

And I hope the rest of you do so also. If someone has a question that you feel "is beneath you" to answer, don't answer. Someone should step in that is closer to their skill level (or more understanding of the situation) to answer their questions in terms they understand. That is what a community is for.

I'll say again that I don't like the change in ZB since some of the new devs have shown up. It feels like a pack of bullies taking over a playground.

Link9228 · 08-28-2008, 01:54 PM

I think lots of new people here aren't making it such a nice place, not only devs. And i have been here from before the developing came around, so I can make this assumption.

catnat109 · 08-28-2008, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anachostic

Your responses to people near or at your level of skill are decent, but always contain a correction. I guess you have to constantly prove yourself. However, your responses to beginners are not helpful or supportive.

The person is having trouble with terminology. He is using objects, since he is creating programs, but he doesn't know it. Your response is to throw even higher-level terminology at him.

As a response to my sarcastic comment, you return with an insult.

Based on previous statements you've made, this is how I intrepreted your reponse:

"VB? woah." Reminds me of the common iPod insult "What's a Zune?"
"In school we had...make stuff" I don't know how old you are, but it sounds like you are drawing a parallel between high school and VB, as if using VB means you aren't grown up enough to use a supposedly better language.
"All I did was..." Because VB isn't good for anything else.

You mean this?

That sounds encouraging.

With all that explanation, I don't particularly mean to single you out, and I tried to convey that by addressing everyone. However, it is not the first time that I have been insulted for being a VB programmer. I hope I am mistaken in my impressions of you and I hope that you work at being less condescending and more supportive of beginning users.

And I hope the rest of you do so also. If someone has a question that you feel "is beneath you" to answer, don't answer. Someone should step in that is closer to their skill level (or more understanding of the situation) to answer their questions in terms they understand. That is what a community is for.

I'll say again that I don't like the change in ZB since some of the new devs have shown up. It feels like a pack of bullies taking over a playground.

He is not making fun of you... why are you doing this?

Locke · 08-28-2008, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anachostic

Your responses to people near or at your level of skill are decent, but always contain a correction. I guess you have to constantly prove yourself. However, your responses to beginners are not helpful or supportive.

The person is having trouble with terminology. He is using objects, since he is creating programs, but he doesn't know it. Your response is to throw even higher-level terminology at him.

As a response to my sarcastic comment, you return with an insult.

Based on previous statements you've made, this is how I intrepreted your reponse:

"VB? woah." Reminds me of the common iPod insult "What's a Zune?"
"In school we had...make stuff" I don't know how old you are, but it sounds like you are drawing a parallel between high school and VB, as if using VB means you aren't grown up enough to use a supposedly better language.
"All I did was..." Because VB isn't good for anything else.

You mean this?

That sounds encouraging.

With all that explanation, I don't particularly mean to single you out, and I tried to convey that by addressing everyone. However, it is not the first time that I have been insulted for being a VB programmer. I hope I am mistaken in my impressions of you and I hope that you work at being less condescending and more supportive of beginning users.

And I hope the rest of you do so also. If someone has a question that you feel "is beneath you" to answer, don't answer. Someone should step in that is closer to their skill level (or more understanding of the situation) to answer their questions in terms they understand. That is what a community is for.

I'll say again that I don't like the change in ZB since some of the new devs have shown up. It feels like a pack of bullies taking over a playground.

You take a very...interesting perspective on this. I'm not sure if Tiptup will appreciate this or not, but there are certain fallacies I can't let stand.

So what if he corrects people? He's knowledgeable, and capable of doing it well. I've never seen him act pompous or disrespectful, with the exception of ZuneApps, but I don't think many people respect him at all in the first place. If an experienced coder has advice to give, the reciever out to be happy to get it. I've heard far worse in the world of critism, believe me, Tiptup is practically an angel compared to people who are truly overcritical.

Tiptup was talking to you there, and you know what they mean, right? At this point he had already moved away from talking to ZuneApps.

Not really. More of a statement of fact. If ZuneApps doesn't get objects by now after having written at least some code, it's very unlikely he'd get higher level concepts, which is what Tiptup said, in slightly humourous language while conversing with another coder.

No, it's just that C# is a very different language from VB. If it's anything like C++, then I'd say that C# is a much more technical language. VB was my first language, and I remember that it seemed best for writing simple dialogs for Windows programs, and it was very difficult, well for me at least, to write a game in it, as opposed to the options available in a language like C#. Also, the only parallel he's drawing is one of personal experience. He took VB in high school. I took VB and Java in high school. Those are, believe it or not, common languages in those grades. Can you imagine trying to teach a 14 year old how to code in a lower level language, or even just more complex high level language? All he said was that he himself did some small projects in high school with VB. There's no hidden meaning here or anything.

Wow. I was not expecting you to flat-out lie. Well, misquote, but you did so to the intention to twist words heavily, which is the same as lying. Rather despicable, actually. He said:

Quote:

I'm just saying he should probably pick up a book or take a class in programming.

He saying that ZuneApps ough to learn how to program instead of going and cluttering up the forums. The way you say it, it sounds like he is telling you off for coding in VB, which HE NEVER SAID!

If by mistaken, you mean delusional, you may be right. You either lied or are very, very mistaken/delusional.

I really haven't noticed any bullying as of late. I've seen plenty of stupid comments, but not on the account of members like Tiptup. He's the kind of member that needs to be on zB, really.

catnat109 · 08-28-2008, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Locke

You take a very...interesting perspective on this. I'm not sure if Tiptup will appreciate this or not, but there are certain fallacies I can't let stand.

So what if he corrects people? He's knowledgeable, and capable of doing it well. I've never seen him act pompous or disrespectful, with the exception of ZuneApps, but I don't think many people respect him at all in the first place. If an experienced coder has advice to give, the reciever out to be happy to get it. I've heard far worse in the world of critism, believe me, Tiptup is practically an angel compared to people who are truly overcritical.

Tiptup was talking to you there, and you know what they mean, right? At this point he had already moved away from talking to ZuneApps.

Not really. More of a statement of fact. If ZuneApps doesn't get objects by now after having written at least some code, it's very unlikely he'd get higher level concepts, which is what Tiptup said, in slightly humourous language while conversing with another coder.

No, it's just that C# is a very different language from VB. If it's anything like C++, then I'd say that C# is a much more technical language. VB was my first language, and I remember that it seemed best for writing simple dialogs for Windows programs, and it was very difficult, well for me at least, to write a game in it, as opposed to the options available in a language like C#. Also, the only parallel he's drawing is one of personal experience. He took VB in high school. I took VB and Java in high school. Those are, believe it or not, common languages in those grades. Can you imagine trying to teach a 14 year old how to code in a lower level language, or even just more complex high level language? All he said was that he himself did some small projects in high school with VB. There's no hidden meaning here or anything.

Wow. I was not expecting you to flat-out lie. Well, misquote, but you did so to the intention to twist words heavily, which is the same as lying. Rather despicable, actually. He said:

He saying that ZuneApps ough to learn how to program instead of going and cluttering up the forums. The way you say it, it sounds like he is telling you off for coding in VB, which HE NEVER SAID!

If by mistaken, you mean delusional, you may be right. You either lied or are very, very mistaken/delusional.

I really haven't noticed any bullying as of late. I've seen plenty of stupid comments, but not on the account of members like Tiptup. He's the kind of member that needs to be on zB, really.

why isn't he on zB as staff?

Locke · 08-28-2008, 03:00 PM

Well, I don't know. He's certainly capable of it. It's possible that he doesn't really want to, or maybe just that zB has lots of staff members and aren't adding anymore for a while, but there's really no reason from him not to from what I can see.

catnat109 · 08-28-2008, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Locke

Well, I don't know. He's certainly capable of it. It's possible that he doesn't really want to, or maybe just that zB has lots of staff members and aren't adding anymore for a while, but there's really no reason from him not to from what I can see.

well maybe he should have been a zB programmer instead of me.

Locke · 08-28-2008, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by catnat109

well maybe he should have been a zB programmer instead of me.

O.o Why do you say that?

catnat109 · 08-28-2008, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Locke

O.o Why do you say that?

well he has more knowledge of programming then me.

Anachostic · 08-28-2008, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Locke

You take a very...interesting perspective on this. I'm not sure if Tiptup will appreciate this or not, but there are certain fallacies I can't let stand.

I'm not going to argue with you over someone else, although I will address your concerns.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Locke

So what if he corrects people? He's knowledgeable, and capable of doing it well. I've never seen him act pompous or disrespectful, with the exception of ZuneApps, but I don't think many people respect him at all in the first place.

I disagree. I do not think the responses are very good. Technically correct, but not delivered in a positive manner.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Locke

If an experienced coder has advice to give, the reciever out to be happy to get it. I've heard far worse in the world of criticism, believe me, Tiptup is practically an angel compared to people who are truly overcritical.

I am disappointed that you feel this should be the norm for a community.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Locke

Tiptup was talking to you there, and you know what they mean, right? At this point he had already moved away from talking to ZuneApps.

If I understand which part of my post you are referring to, I do know he was talking to me. What he said was equivalent to saying something derogatory about another person what that person is within earshot. It's poor behavior.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Locke

Not really. More of a statement of fact. If ZuneApps doesn't get objects by now after having written at least some code, it's very unlikely he'd get higher level concepts, which is what Tiptup said, in slightly humourous language while conversing with another coder.

I don't understand why you don't see my point. If someone doesn't understand basics, why bring up completely irrelevant terms that you know they won't understand.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Locke

No, it's just that C# is a very different language from VB. If it's anything like C++, then I'd say that C# is a much more technical language. VB was my first language, and I remember that it seemed best for writing simple dialogs for Windows programs, and it was very difficult, well for me at least, to write a game in it, as opposed to the options available in a language like C#. Also, the only parallel he's drawing is one of personal experience. He took VB in high school. I took VB and Java in high school. Those are, believe it or not, common languages in those grades. Can you imagine trying to teach a 14 year old how to code in a lower level language, or even just more complex high level language? All he said was that he himself did some small projects in high school with VB. There's no hidden meaning here or anything.

It's not your call as to whether there is hidden meaning. You mean to say that you did not infer any hidden meaning.

And if you're not too biased, you might want to revisit VB.net. It's anything but VB6.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Locke

Wow. I was not expecting you to flat-out lie. Well, misquote, but you did so to the intention to twist words heavily, which is the same as lying. Rather despicable, actually. He said:

He saying that ZuneApps ough to learn how to program instead of going and cluttering up the forums. The way you say it, it sounds like he is telling you off for coding in VB, which HE NEVER SAID!

If by mistaken, you mean delusional, you may be right. You either lied or are very, very mistaken/delusional.

I will acknowledge the quote that I used definitely seemed out of context because the last line of TT's post was a question asking where he insulted me and it seemed that I was responding to that. I should have trimmed or bolded the quote to show my response was to "I'm just saying he should probably pick up a book or take a class in programming". That is the kind of attitude I am arguing against.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Locke

I really haven't noticed any bullying as of late. I've seen plenty of stupid comments, but not on the account of members like Tiptup.

Would it help if I said that some devs were acting like an elite clique? Either way, it's unwelcoming.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Locke

He's the kind of member that needs to be on zB, really.

I disagree again.

Do not think that I am attacking anyone's capabilities. There are a lot of talented people here and I respect that. That respect is being lost on poor social behavior.

Quote:

Originally Posted by catnat109

why isn't he on zB as staff?

TipTup left ZB Programmers of his own choice.

Jac21 · 08-28-2008, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anachostic

You self-righteous prick. Apparently, the concept of sarcasm flies right past you.

And that goes for the lot of you. It seems some developers here believe they came from the womb with mastery of the C family of languages. No one seems to remember that everyone was a beginner once and had to learn on their own. For me, it's been 25 years since I started and I know there is always something new to learn. I don't carry the air of superiority that I've been coding for 25 years and I know all there is to know.

Further, too many people that are in a position to help do not understand how to help. Your egos get in the way. You don't understand that different people learn in different ways - some have to read, some have to hear, some have to do, and some need a mix of all of them. You are the types that give IT the reputation of being unapproachable and impossible to deal with.

I was so happy when Microsoft released XNA and ZuneBoards started attracting developers. Now, I'm not so sure. There are some devs on here that really have come off as pompous and derisive and seem to view themselves as Olympian gods, where no one may present a question to them unless they have been born from their C# bloodline. Instead of taking the time to type an answer, they type an insult. That right there is the true demonstration of your skill level. If you are unable to explain how you do something in terms that a beginner can understand, even if it takes many paragraphs, you are not as good as you think you are. And if you are not willing to take the time to share your knowledge, even if it takes many paragraphs, you are of no value to a community.

Now on the topic of VB. Who the hell are you to make assumptions about my coding ability simply because of the language I choose to write in? If you are insinuating that my coding structure is poor or that I don't have proper design skills, I can assure you that you are wrong. You cannot fake your way to an MCSD.NET certification. And while being certified is fine for understanding industry-standard terminology and technique, I also have many years of professional coding experience, from .com to Fortune 100 companies. So don't try and belittle me for ch

08-28-2008, 11:46 AM	#21 (permalink)
Link9228 Jr. Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 389 Reputation: 25	i'm not trying to sound like i'm amazing if any of that was aimed at me. I just know that instead of having others fix his code for him, he should be out looking at tutorials, and reading books, and getting samples and editing them, rather than having others do the stuff. I'm really not an a-hole. I would love to help zune apps, but it doesn't seem he has taken my advice of reading up on c#. Had he done that, he wouldn't have needed to know what an object was. I understand that people don't know how to do things, and sometimes they make stupid mistakes (happens to me all the time), but daily he has questions on rather simple things. If he takes the time to learn all about c# before developing games, then he will be able to start helping others rather than needing it. and about him having his own forums... he asks enough questions. it's not really derogatory. If other beginners have the same questions... well there they would be, nice and answered. __________________ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Last edited by Link9228 : 08-28-2008 at 11:50 AM.

08-28-2008, 01:54 PM	#25 (permalink)
Link9228 Jr. Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 389 Reputation: 25	I think lots of new people here aren't making it such a nice place, not only devs. And i have been here from before the developing came around, so I can make this assumption. __________________ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

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