Zunepad Speculation

yeloshu · 05-13-2008, 07:37 PM

Not exactly sure where this belonged, but I think this is the right section.

So, first thing I did after getting XNA 3.0 running was to take a look at a few games to see if I could make a simple Hello World game to get a handle on what game development would be like. I then went on to make a program that just displays the state of various buttons and axises(excuse my grammar). I noticed that the Zunepad has a large deadzone. I'd say around 15% maybe. It also appeared that after getting past the deadzone's end, the change in the x or y axis decelerated rather quickly. Since that was probably not very well written, I've made a small chart to demonstrate what I mean. Keep in mind, these numbers are made up off the top of my head, they just seem accurate to me. Also, these numbers represent the percentage of the distance your finger is towards the edge from the center. Eg. 0 = Centered; 50 = Halfway to Edge; 100 = Very Farthest Point From Center.

Actual--Reported
000-015 000-000
016-020 001-015
021-030 016-029
031-040 030-042
041-050 043-055
051-060 056-067
061-070 068-077
071-080 078-085
081-090 086-093
091-100 094-100

Just thought this might be worth mentioning as it might be smart to take this into consideration when designing games for the Touch feature of Zune 2.0's. If someone asks, I'll post the App I made that led me to these results.

P.S. Sorry about all the zero's, tried to keep the chart nice and symmetrical.

spenc938 · 05-13-2008, 09:11 PM

I'm not a developer, but this is still interesting to see. I never really realized how inaccurate it was.

TheZMan · 05-14-2008, 01:57 PM

There is a way to disable DeadZones on XNA GamePads. I wonder if it also applies to the Zune. Try reading this and then rerun your app and let us know the results

http://blogs.msdn.com/shawnhar/archi...pads-suck.aspx

SimReality · 05-14-2008, 03:25 PM

Yes there is a dead zone used on the Zune. I have found that I get better results when I disable the dead zone for reading the input.

yeloshu · 05-14-2008, 06:41 PM

Damn, that's interesting. I disabled the deadzone by adding GamePadDeadZone.None to the GetState calls and indeed, it removed the deadzone. I noticed that it made the pad seem much more accurate. Also, if anyone has ever calibrated a joystick through ControlPanel and remembers that you are instructed to move the axis in a complete circle to demonstrate it's range to Windows, you should recognize that a joystick should be able to make a perfect circle. With the deadzone, you couldn't make a decent circle at all, in the diagonal edges (NW, NE, SW, SE), the distance from the center was less than at the regular cardinal edges (N, S, E, W). However, with the deadzone disabled, I was able to make a near perfect circle. Also, due to the nature of the zunepad not reporting a position when your finger isn't on it, there really is no need for you to use a deadzone in retrieving input for the purpose of writing games. They likely only even integrated a deadzone so the navigation through menus would be less erratic. Nice catch ZMan!

TheZMan · 05-14-2008, 10:11 PM

Make sure you read Shawns blog though http://blogs.msdn.com/shawnhar/archi...pads-suck.aspx depending on the type of game you are using and the type of input you expect to see deadzones like this are a great idea. There are cases for all kinds of deadzone and a lack of a deadzone so I don't want everyone thinking that turning them off should be the default action.

05-13-2008, 07:37 PM	#1 (permalink)
yeloshu Jr. Zuner Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 34 Reputation: 11 $zB: 29 Donate	Zunepad Speculation Not exactly sure where this belonged, but I think this is the right section. So, first thing I did after getting XNA 3.0 running was to take a look at a few games to see if I could make a simple Hello World game to get a handle on what game development would be like. I then went on to make a program that just displays the state of various buttons and axises(excuse my grammar). I noticed that the Zunepad has a large deadzone. I'd say around 15% maybe. It also appeared that after getting past the deadzone's end, the change in the x or y axis decelerated rather quickly. Since that was probably not very well written, I've made a small chart to demonstrate what I mean. Keep in mind, these numbers are made up off the top of my head, they just seem accurate to me. Also, these numbers represent the percentage of the distance your finger is towards the edge from the center. Eg. 0 = Centered; 50 = Halfway to Edge; 100 = Very Farthest Point From Center. Actual--Reported 000-015 000-000 016-020 001-015 021-030 016-029 031-040 030-042 041-050 043-055 051-060 056-067 061-070 068-077 071-080 078-085 081-090 086-093 091-100 094-100 Just thought this might be worth mentioning as it might be smart to take this into consideration when designing games for the Touch feature of Zune 2.0's. If someone asks, I'll post the App I made that led me to these results. P.S. Sorry about all the zero's, tried to keep the chart nice and symmetrical.

05-14-2008, 03:25 PM	#4 (permalink)
SimReality Jr. Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 336 Reputation: 49 $zB: 279 Donate	Yes there is a dead zone used on the Zune. I have found that I get better results when I disable the dead zone for reading the input. __________________ Nick Gravelyn Microsoft MVP - DirectX/XNA To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

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05-13-2008, 09:11 PM	#2 (permalink)
spenc938 Experienced Zuner Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 125 Reputation: 10 $zB: 16 Donate	I'm not a developer, but this is still interesting to see. I never really realized how inaccurate it was.

05-14-2008, 01:57 PM	#3 (permalink)
TheZMan Zuner Join Date: May 2008 Location: WA Posts: 65 Reputation: 12 $zB: 56 Donate	There is a way to disable DeadZones on XNA GamePads. I wonder if it also applies to the Zune. Try reading this and then rerun your app and let us know the results http://blogs.msdn.com/shawnhar/archi...pads-suck.aspx

05-14-2008, 06:41 PM	#5 (permalink)
yeloshu Jr. Zuner Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 34 Reputation: 11 $zB: 29 Donate	Damn, that's interesting. I disabled the deadzone by adding GamePadDeadZone.None to the GetState calls and indeed, it removed the deadzone. I noticed that it made the pad seem much more accurate. Also, if anyone has ever calibrated a joystick through ControlPanel and remembers that you are instructed to move the axis in a complete circle to demonstrate it's range to Windows, you should recognize that a joystick should be able to make a perfect circle. With the deadzone, you couldn't make a decent circle at all, in the diagonal edges (NW, NE, SW, SE), the distance from the center was less than at the regular cardinal edges (N, S, E, W). However, with the deadzone disabled, I was able to make a near perfect circle. Also, due to the nature of the zunepad not reporting a position when your finger isn't on it, there really is no need for you to use a deadzone in retrieving input for the purpose of writing games. They likely only even integrated a deadzone so the navigation through menus would be less erratic. Nice catch ZMan!

05-14-2008, 10:11 PM	#6 (permalink)
TheZMan Zuner Join Date: May 2008 Location: WA Posts: 65 Reputation: 12 $zB: 56 Donate	Make sure you read Shawns blog though http://blogs.msdn.com/shawnhar/archi...pads-suck.aspx depending on the type of game you are using and the type of input you expect to see deadzones like this are a great idea. There are cases for all kinds of deadzone and a lack of a deadzone so I don't want everyone thinking that turning them off should be the default action.

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