Gaming on the Zune: frequently asked questions

[Anachostic]

I disagree on a few points.

VB.NET syntax is nothing like C#. I have been coding VB for about 15 years so it's something I am familiar with. I see no reason to learn a new language when VB does everything I need it to.

The deployment via Visual Studio C# is not a problem. I do all my development and testing in VS2005. When I need to deploy, I run two batch files. One creates a DLL with all the game logic and the other creates a DLL with the game UI logic. My VS2008 C# project has references to these DLLs. The Visual C# XNA game code instantiates my game UI and calls .Run(), literally, a one-time, one line change.

Finally, we are all in the exploratory stages. I find it odd that the two times I have offered the completely valid method of using VB.NET for Zune games I have been told to "just learn C#" or been insulted for using VB to begin with. Why not give encouragement to any .NET programmer to develop for the Zune? I feel like I'm on the ass end of some sort of superiority play.

Surely, the final method of deploying will be through the Zune software and not Visual Studio. At that time, all we'll need is to distribute an EXE, XNBs and whatever DLLs go along with it. When that time comes, I won't even use VS2008 C# to do my builds, I'll just use a batch file.

[SimReality]

Originally Posted by Anachostic

VB.NET syntax is nothing like C#.

It's close enough that I, with about two years of C# experience and no experience in VB.NET was able to pick up VB.NET in a matter of a day or two. So while there are differences, they are similar enough.

Finally, we are all in the exploratory stages.

What do you mean by that?

Why not give encouragement to any .NET programmer to develop for the Zune?

I am encouraging anyone to learn. But I also think it's worth using the supported language. I'm not insulting anyone. If you like VB.NET and it works for you, great. But for most people it just seems easier to use the supported language instead.

I feel like I'm on the ass end of some sort of superiority play.

It's not superiority play; it's just recommending that people use the supported language.

Surely, the final method of deploying will be through the Zune software and not Visual Studio. At that time, all we'll need is to distribute an EXE, XNBs and whatever DLLs go along with it. When that time comes, I won't even use VS2008 C# to do my builds, I'll just use a batch file.

But when will that time come? It is taking Microsoft two years before there will be any non-developer method of getting games on the Xbox 360. I anticipate there will not be this method of deployment (through Zune software) at the 3.0 release this holiday season. I don't expect to see it for at least another 6-12 months minimum.

[Anachostic]

Going from C# to VB should be easy. Since BASIC has always been about a more human-readable syntax. And I am certainly capable of reading, interpreting, and converting C#, similar to my understanding French or Spanish, it's just that I can't "speak" it fluently.

The whole .NET model is based on language-independance. I am actually promoting this concept. By "exploratory," I mean that we are all working with pre-release code. We have been given license to see what the capabilities are for this library. I'm promoting the capabilities of this library to not be restricted or limited.

"Supported languages" is what it says. Official support will be provided for the C# language. Being an MVP, you might have some official stance you have to take, I don't know. However, since this is only a CTP, nothing is truly official yet.

I didn't say you've insulted me. Some of my bitterness is from the whole "VB programmers are sloppy" mentality that has grown steadily as programmers convert to C# from Java or C. It's an unfair stereotype.

As far as full release timing, you probably know better than I, since you have access to some MVP resources. I don't know what the outstanding issues are with Zune XNA. I haven't hit any showstoppers, and I can only think of some general improvements. I think it's in great shape as it is so I can't see why they couldn't get it in, unless the Zune application team is too swamped to do the integration.

So, are we in agreement that an experienced VB developer shouldn't have any problem developing for Zune? However, an inexperienced VB programmer who would either have trouble writing in a language-neutral manner or would have difficultly managing two projects (despite that the C# project is practically maintenance-free) should keep it simple and use C# exclusively.

[SimReality]

Originally Posted by Anachostic

By "exploratory," I mean that we are all working with pre-release code. We have been given license to see what the capabilities are for this library. I'm promoting the capabilities of this library to not be restricted or limited.

"Supported languages" is what it says. Official support will be provided for the C# language. Being an MVP, you might have some official stance you have to take, I don't know. However, since this is only a CTP, nothing is truly official yet.

C# is officially the only language supported. It has been the first beta of XNA 1.0 back in the late summer/fall of 2006. It will continue to be the only supported language for the foreseeable future. This will not change with 3.0.

I didn't say you've insulted me. Some of my bitterness is from the whole "VB programmers are sloppy" mentality that has grown steadily as programmers convert to C# from Java or C. It's an unfair stereotype.

Indeed it is unfair. One of the other XNA MVPs does VB.NET professionally. Of course we tease him about it, but only in good fun.

As far as full release timing, you probably know better than I, since you have access to some MVP resources. I don't know what the outstanding issues are with Zune XNA. I haven't hit any showstoppers, and I can only think of some general improvements. I think it's in great shape as it is so I can't see why they couldn't get it in, unless the Zune application team is too swamped to do the integration.

I don't know anything about the release plans. I'm merely speculating. It took them a long time to reach the Xbox, but that's a whole different beast. That was treading on XBLA and that whole economy. The Zune doesn't have that economy so, sure, it's possible that the have the full end to end ready to go at the end of the year. Personally I'm just doubting that will happen.

All I'm expecting is that we'll be able to package our games as ccgames for launch. A ccgame is a compressed package with your compiled game and content. It does require that you have all the developer tools installed to use, however it removes the requirement that all games distribute as source and makes it easier for users to install. Just double click the ccgame, hit unpack, and you're done. At least that's how the Xbox started out so I presume that's how the Zune will.

Lots of things to consider and it's anyone's guess (including mine) as to what will happen at the end of the year.

So, are we in agreement that an experienced VB developer shouldn't have any problem developing for Zune? However, an inexperienced VB programmer who would either have trouble writing in a language-neutral manner or would have difficultly managing two projects (despite that the C# project is practically maintenance-free) should keep it simple and use C# exclusively.

Absolutely in agreement.