Gun laws...

[jmslew]

What are your thoughts on gun laws in the U.S.? Too strict? Or to lenient? Before it gets started, I'll state my opinon. I think they are fine just how they are. I think that people should be allowed to have guns, but I also think there should be clearly defined limits for what is considered reasonable for home defense (shotgun), self protection (pistol), or hunting (rifles). And then there is of course, all the others that fall into sport shooting, collecting, etc...

What are your opinions?

[theDark]

Well tbh I think there too lenient but that's coming from someone from the UK where we have comparatively strict laws on guns. I just think that if guns werent so readily available in the USA then there wouldnt all the gun related crime (school shootings etc.), I know some of you will disagree but thats fine, i don't fully understand your laws so i can't really comment on them.

[David]

I think that gun laws are fine the way they are... but there are some obvious problems with them.

People can just go out and buy a gun legally. That's just fine. If they do something bad with the gun they can be tracked pretty easily.

But I think that cops and citizens should crack down on illegal gun dealings.
It's sucks that people who get their guns for legal use have to jump through all these hoops just to go out and hunt. But someone can just find the right guy and buy a gun with no questions asked.

[jmslew]

Originally Posted by gold.n.god

I think that gun laws are fine the way they are... but there are some obvious problems with them.

ok, let me correct what I should have said...: The laws are good, the definitions of what is sufficient for home protection, what is an assault weapon (that requires additional permits/background checks) etc. is what needs to be changed.

[E.Dan]

The laws are adequate. The assault weapon ban is a joke since automatic rifles are banned and the assault weapons were semi-automatic.

The problem is not the laws but the criminals breaking the laws. After all do people who obey the laws commit crime or do the people who do not obey the laws do. After all you can pass as many gun laws as you want but it will still boil down to where are the criminals getting their guns. UK has this problem as well. After all, when a criminal wants a gun they can go through an illegal channel and get that gun. It is that channel that needs to be broken down. Plus when you think about it how different is gun crime from sword crime that was rampant across the world before the advent of the gun?

You can look through history to see huge instances of crime committed with swords, daggers, et cetera. All that has happened is that the sword has been replaced by the gun. The same amount of people still die but as the views on death have changed people are told to think that it has gotten worse.

Basically, there has always been and will always be, violence, drugs and disrespect for elders. It has not increased so much as our methods for spotting it and taking notice it have increased. Back 100 years ago if some bum died in some bum part of town...no one cared and didn't count it as a crime. Now it is.

There has always been crime and will always be crime. A gun in the end is just a tool. A tool used by both criminals and people. The trick is to keep the tools out the hands of criminals and in the hands of the people.

Come to think of it. There are probably enough laws on the books to work but how many are actually being enforced as compared to the number on the books? It is the same problem with immigration. Laws are written, passed and ratified but are lacking enforcement.

Plus, jmslew, you and I know most assault weapons that people buy legally are M4 or M16 knockoffs, which use the .223 or 5.56 bullet, they are not the most powerful semi-automatic rifles on the market. Also, the huge trade in illegal assault weapons is what really causes the problem. In particular, the AK-47 or its variants that use the 7.62 bullet, since it and its variants are flooded around the world.

FYI for those who don't know. The damage difference between the 5.56 NATO round used in the M-16, M-4, SA80 and other NATO country rifles and the 7.62 Soviet round is quite huge. Bigger bullet equals bigger penetration. This is a problem that friends of mine have faced on the battlefields of Iraq and Afghanistan. The 5.56 doesn't penetrate the body armor or heavy clothing of the enemy combatants resulting in return fire that kills some of their battle buddies.

[jmslew]

Originally Posted by Gow

The laws are adequate. The assault weapon ban is a joke since automatic rifles are banned and the assault weapons were semi-automatic.

The problem is not the laws but the criminals breaking the laws. After all do people who obey the laws commit crime or do the people who do not obey the laws do. After all you can pass as many gun laws as you want but it will still boil down to where are the criminals getting their guns. UK has this problem as well. After all, when a criminal wants a gun they can go through an illegal channel and get that gun. It is that channel that needs to be broken down. Plus when you think about it how different is gun crime from sword crime that was rampant across the world before the advent of the gun?

You can look through history to see huge instances of crime committed with swords, daggers, et cetera. All that has happened is that the sword has been replaced by the gun. The same amount of people still die but as the views on death have changed people are told to think that it has gotten worse.

Basically, there has always been and will always be, violence, drugs and disrespect for elders. It has not increased so much as our methods for spotting it and taking notice it have increased. Back 100 years ago if some bum died in some bum part of town...no one cared and didn't count it as a crime. Now it is.

There has always been crime and will always be crime. A gun in the end is just a tool. A tool used by both criminals and people. The trick is to keep the tools out the hands of criminals and in the hands of the people.

Come to think of it. There are probably enough laws on the books to work but how many are actually being enforced as compared to the number on the books? It is the same problem with immigration. Laws are written, passed and ratified but are lacking enforcement.

Plus, jmslew, you and I know most assault weapons that people buy legally are M4 or M16 knockoffs, which use the .223 or 5.56 bullet, they are not the most powerful semi-automatic rifles on the market. Also, the huge trade in illegal assault weapons is what really causes the problem. In particular, the AK-47 or its variants that use the 7.62 bullet, since it and its variants are flooded around the world.

FYI for those who don't know. The damage difference between the 5.56 NATO round used in the M-16, M-4, SA80 and other NATO country rifles and the 7.62 Soviet round is quite huge. Bigger bullet equals bigger penetration. This is a problem that friends of mine have faced on the battlefields of Iraq and Afghanistan. The 5.56 doesn't penetrate the body armor or heavy clothing of the enemy combatants resulting in return fire that kills some of their battle buddies.

I am very much aligned with your points here. Back in 1999 or 2000...there was an armored truck that was ambushed by a few criminals and one even had an rpg...the security officers in the armored truck didn't even have pistols...and here they are, being held up by criminals who have a freaking rpg. Making things illegal will not stop criminals.

On the note of the NATO rounds...the reason we are at a disadvantage is because our armor was designed to protect us from 5.56 NATO rounds. And everyone else uses 7.62. Our 240G's use 7.62, but that is a medium machine gun. Our on foot infantry is typically equipped with weapons that can be used while on the move effectively. The M16A2 fires a 5.56 (same as .223) NATO Ball round. The ball round is counterweighted to spin vertically (like a punted football), to inflict fatal damage. Civilians cannot typically get NATO rounds...and definitely not legally.

Guns do help prevent crimes too. Read this link: http://www.rense.com/general9/gunlaw.htm

[E.Dan]

Damn, rpg.

Most guard trucks around here carry personnel with auto weapons and portholes to fire out of from all angles but against an RPG...DAMN!

The local law enforcement uses MP5s besides your standard issue Glock sidearm. Maybe SWAT team uses M4s...not sure as I have not seen them. Probably, the only people I know around here that was use the NATO rounds. *Tumble, Tumble*

If we could crack down on illegal firearm trading there may be less crime, though obviously where there is a will there is a way. Case in point, Japan, UK, et cetera. Places where guns are banned yet there is still gun crime.

I think the only reason the US has more gun crime is because of our culture and history. Ireland is probably high up there as well.

In the end, no matter how you slice it, the whole thing ends up being a Catch 22 that has to be balanced or you get damned.