U.S Healthcare System

[Zuneologist]

the mess it is, and its only going to get worse.

How do you think our system should be run?

[E.Dan]

There is no good way to run a healthcare system but Socialized Medicine is not the answer. It kills children and the elderly to give medical care to the workers. Anybody who has been in the Military / VA Healthcare system can attest to the problems with Socialized Medicine.

The only thing I stress that needs to be changed is Tort Reform. Frivolous lawsuits cost Insurance Companies money, in turn the companies charge the users more money. Doctor bills go up. So and so forth. We need serious tort reform.

[Zuneologist]

well more than tort reform, theres a number of probs: growing cost of healthcare, the number of uninsured, the focus on tertiary care(basically doing more at the last stage of a disease), longer life expectancy and you add to the fact that by 2010-2020 the baby boomers will be using many healthcare services.

there arent many developed countries out there with this many cracks in their healthcare system., especially on how advanced U.S is.

obviously there are many ways to deal with this. im actually in college and working in a hospital. when i get out, im going to be managing a hospital or a clinic, so obviously i have to deal with this on a day-to-day basis.

1) i know U.S can deal with this problem. there are already changes being made, but you have to keep working at this.
2) first there is an ethical problem, not a financial one. what do you do with so many uninsured people? do they not deserve health care?
3) if they do, how do get healthcare to them.
4) the government is already picking up 30% of the healthcare cost. the rest comes from insurance if you have any, and ofcourse Medicare or Medicaid, depending upon the situation.
5) Why have so many different systems, why not just switch over to Universal Healthcare coverage?

..damn i gotta run..i'll put up some ideas later. anyways thoughts on what i mentioned?

[jmslew]

I'm with GoW on this one. Socialization looks good on paper to those who overlook what it really does. What it really does is degrade quality of any service that has gone socialized.

[Zuneologist]

well the quality does come down, i agree.
well in life, you have to give up something to gain something. using that same theory, i believe we just might have to give up the greatest quality for access to healthcare for everyone.

[jmslew]

Now, I am not saying that there should not be an overhaul. I am not saying that people who can't afford healthcare via insurance or any other method shouldn't get it or don't deserve it. There are much better ways to do this though. Arnold Schwarzenegger just passed some law or bill or policy that requires employers to give employess more options and/or benefits. This is a step in the right direction. Not socializing through the Federal Government.

*note, I just remember hearing about Arnold Schwarzenegger doing this and I heard a very brief explanation, so if I am wrong, I apologize, but if what I heard is right, this is the correct way to go about helping more people get healthcare and it also gives people more incentives to get a job which results in better work ethics etc... I could keep babbling on, but I think I have made my point.

[Zuneologist]

Originally Posted by jmslew

Now, I am not saying that there should not be an overhaul. I am not saying that people who can't afford healthcare via insurance or any other method shouldn't get it or don't deserve it. There are much better ways to do this though. Arnold Schwarzenegger just passed some law or bill or policy that requires employers to give employess more options and/or benefits. This is a step in the right direction. Not socializing through the Federal Government.

*note, I just remember hearing about Arnold Schwarzenegger doing this and I heard a very brief explanation, so if I am wrong, I apologize, but if what I heard is right, this is the correct way to go about helping more people get healthcare and it also gives people more incentives to get a job which results in better work ethics etc... I could keep babbling on, but I think I have made my point.

okay, lets say this Arnold plan is actually a theory. let me explain how this cannot work.
1) more than half of businesses out there are small businesses and not firms.
2) add the rising cost of advanced healthcare and premiums
3) most small businesses cannot afford to give healthcare as a benefit to their employees. its simply not feasible .
4) now the cycle goes around and now you have uninsured employees.

this leads us back to the problem again.

[jmslew]

Well, time will tell and I think it is time for employers to stop hoarding profits, even small businesses. At least for the time being. They may struggle a little bit, but if it works out it'll be the best solution I have heard of. If not, it'll go right beck to where we are or rather where Californians' were and we'll need a little more brainstorming. One thing is for sure, if it doesn't work, I am all for going back to what it was before. Forcing it upon people is not the way to go, but it does need time to see if it will be successful.

To be honest, people don't need to make as much as they do to get by, healthcare included. I have lived very very frugally before, and people spend what they earn...for the most part no matter what they earn. I make a LOT more now than I did 2 years ago and I realized recently that I still wasn't saving the amounts I should have been. This is how I realized that people spend what they earn. There are always exceptions...and people who have so much money they couldn't spend it all. This reminds me of Brewster's Millions. heh

[Method of Mac]

Anyone interested in this in California needs to look up SB 840. It passed once but Arnold veto'd it, its coming back though.

Also, anyone who has previously spoke actually been in a single pay system before? (Canada, Sweden, et cetera) Not only does it work, it tends to work well.

I am not trying to be confrontational but I am not sure comparing it to the VA is exactly right.

[jmslew]

I'm a Marine, and my healthcare sucks. I wish no one into a socialized system as it does not do any good in my opinion.

[Method of Mac]

I refer you back to what I wrote previously. The VA and a single pay system are very different, and your right, the VA does pretty much blow, but most of those situations do. (Kaiser, Blue Cross, et cetera)

[jmslew]

The problem is, it's only a matter of time before this system would fail and/or be just as bad or worse than the system I am on. Put simply, socialization is a censorship of abilities to make choices. Not to mention you would have less and less doctors because they would be going to school for 8 years, racking up a HUGE amount of debt and be getting paid horribly. Their incentive to learn, improve and keep up to date on new medical technologies will collapse. As for the mention about Canadian doctors, there is a large amount of Canadian doctors coming into the US because of the situation I described above. They go to school for so long and are so in debt that when they realize that they are getting paid aroun $40,000 a year, it just wasn't worth it. Their incentives go away. Basically they got shat on. So they come to the US where they can make more money and deal with newer privatized equiptment. And they don't have the government making their patients' important decisions based on cost of service, medical equiptment or risk.

[Zuneologist]

Originally Posted by jmslew

To be honest, people don't need to make as much as they do to get by, healthcare included. I have lived very very frugally before, and people spend what they earn...for the most part no matter what they earn. I make a LOT more now than I did 2 years ago and I realized recently that I still wasn't saving the amounts I should have been. This is how I realized that people spend what they earn. There are always exceptions...and people who have so much money they couldn't spend it all. This reminds me of Brewster's Millions. heh

Well you know your right in some aspects. Americans are used to consuming and consuming. But you cant tell people how to live their lives. No one will accept that.

Originally Posted by Method of Mac

Anyone interested in this in California needs to look up SB 840. It passed once but Arnold veto'd it, its coming back though.

Also, anyone who has previously spoke actually been in a single pay system before? (Canada, Sweden, et cetera) Not only does it work, it tends to work well.

I am not trying to be confrontational but I am not sure comparing it to the VA is exactly right.

Yeah single pay system definetly works.

I dont think we have to have the exact system Canada or any other country has.America leads the world in the highly advanced patient care using technology. I firmly believe that we can solve and fix our healthcare system. But you know what the important thing is? not waiting till the last minute and voting!

Yes voting, if we dont agree with the bastards who are making the decisions in Washington, we vote 'em out! The nation has to recognize what their elected leaders are doing and whether they are making the right decisions. everyone complains, how the system is screwed up and all, but the first step is putting in place the right people...which is why i think the upcoming election is as important as any.

[jmslew]

Voting is the right place to start. Sooooo many Americans don't vote, follow politics, know what the people running the country want to do. That is where the problem begins. I don't blame them for not following it, as corrupt as politics are and as biased as the media is. And it's too bad that as a result a lot of the ones who do vote have such a hard biased opinion.

[Method of Mac]

jmslew:

I am starting to think you view the glass half-empty my friend.

[jmslew]

Maybe, due to personal preferences and opinon. If I seem one sided (and I know I do), it is because I have looked into it, maybe not far enough, but made an opinon from what I looked into. I know that options and change are good, but am very very skeptical about letting the federal or even state or local government take charge in something like healthcare. I guess part of this is because 6 months ago, I had an aunt undergo a simple surgery and she ended up nearly dying and it was because we had the option to keep her alive as long as she was making progress. Even if we had a lot of bills and she used up her medicare. If someone else (the government) had been able to make these decisions, I don't think she'd be here today. And as I type, I have an uncle that just had a freak accident and he choked on his vomit in his sleep, almost died and is still in critical consition and he is still there, making forward progress because we had and have the option to keep him there. So, yeah, I may very well be looking at the glass half empty, but given what my family and I have gone through and still are going through in the last year, I am very glad it's not a matter of 'how much will it cost us?' being decided by any form of government.

[David]

Originally Posted by Zuneologist

the mess it is, and its only going to get worse.

How do you think our system should be run?

I know that if you have medical you dont get much coverage, but you don't have to pay for sh*t. and there're a lot of restrictions. healthy families is kinda the same but for a higher level of income, but if you make too much money your're gunna have to pay a lot for insurence.