Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark616
what exactly is the post tribulation view locke?
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Basically, post-Trib would state that all of the Christians will be recieved into Heaven
after the Tribulation as described in Revelation. Any mention of God "delivering" or "protecting" Christians before this moment are not the Rapture, as the pre-Trib view holds, but rather, an assurance that God has not abbandoned or forsaken his followers, even in the worst of times. There really isn't a whole lot of evidence for the pre-Trib view, but it has gained a large following through, you guessed it,
Left Behind. There are some arguments for pre-Trib that have
some Biblical basis, I suppose(or else why would the view exist?), but they can be refuted with some in-depth study, and most pre-Tribbers don't know the very well anyway. They assume it because it's been popular as of late. One reason why the media is sending us straight to Hell....
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigMakk
Size: no one is so small that they are still being developed in a womb.
Level of development: mental retardation is a handicap that has already developed while an embryo/fetus is still developing.
Degree of Dependency: no other "human" (if you would like me to call it that) lives off of another person, in this kind of physical extension.
Location: no other person lives in a uterus (even though they have, I don't see the fetus being a person).
Also, you are talking like these descriptions can be split apart regarding the fetus, but they are linked.
My 2 cents  |
Your points can be boiled down to one point: the degree to which these four factors are expressed makes the unborn baby not human. The degree may be different, but the degree is irrelevant! The fact is that there is nothing else that makes these unborn babies any different than anyone else, and EVERYONE is separated in these factors by different degrees. If the degree matters, the the definition of a human becomes arbitrary, because it becomes a subjective factor!
Other than that, a couple of objections. In the second point, you say that metal retardation is decided at conception because of the genes. True. But what about metal impairment. Smoke inhalation victims, stroke victims, even a sharp blow to the head can all cause several metal impairment. Even though their brain did develop fully, their brain operates at a lower level, often because it becomes physically damaged to that end. In other words, they suffer the same end, yet through different means. There are many, many ways to achieve that end. So, if we consider those with decreased metal capacity "less developed" under the "degree matters" logic, they are less human. And even then, this whole topic becomes irrelevant. Why? Because the level of development is influenced by far more than simple metal retardation. A 2 year old is less developed than a 20 yeard old, correct? So, the only thing that makes a unborn baby any less human is the extreme degree of these factors. As I've previously stated, if we allow this to determine what makes a human, then we can define anything as "extreme!" When we start to decide what is human and what is not based on subjective standards(a contradiction in and of itself), then we risk a very shaky moral ground, and not just by Christian standards. The Nazi reigme was famous for its eugenics and for defining humans as they wished. I'm not saying that this "degree matters" philosphy is tantamount to mass murder, but it is the logical end when we consider who is defining this standard! To put the trust of such a responsibility in the hands of any fallible man(i.e. any man, period) would be sheer folly!